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Alpha-152 general discussion

Intelligent Alpha

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
Chapstick said:
None of that is guaranteed though. I'm asking for stuff that works even with the AI's recovery set to tech instantly. For example go into the lab with Kasumi and do 3H+K H+K 66PP~P+K. That force tech is 100% guaranteed.
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Here's Alpha's problem: she has no 100% guarantees outside of CB combos and none of her CBs are guaranteed either especially the mids! This is why oyu have to rely on her mix up game, but folks will eliminate that in a hurry! All Alpha players and non-players know this! IDGAF what you find in the lab with her!
 
Chapstick

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
66P FLT P, right? And BT 4P from that pseudo I found (does any other character in the game have a pseudo that 100% guarantees a launch? I think only Bayman and Leifang can get out of that and that's if they do their BT parries instantly) Also I asked about true force techs because this
synce said:
That's a pretty cool looking setup, but I think Alpha's the only character that doesn't need PFTs. She can still get guaranteed FTs with 4K. I don't know if it's common knowledge yet but yeah, been that way since they removed FTs (or tried to) :)
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makes it sound like she has one.
 
Intelligent Alpha

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
DrDam said:
^ This mad ^
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haha! I'm not mad, but I even asked you if she had gaurantees outside of a CB (66P is a CB and you need significant stun or you just get it KB which then DIVE can be held) and you said: "No!" And before anyone says how wonderful BURST and RUSH are, these throws aren't guaranteed either.
 
synce

synce

Well-Known Member
Another sketch dump (previous here if you missed it)

bus1.png


bus2.png


ten1.png


ten2.png


ten3.png


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That last pic is cropped but you can see the full version along with a couple more sketches on pixiv.
 
Chapstick

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
What is the point of her 33T to BT opponents? 6T to BT opponents does oboro at the same amount of damage but is 5f faster.
 
Lulu

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Do you get the exact same move from 33T and 6T from BT opponent's ?
Well she wouldn't be the first, The Grapplers have a few of those odd quirks.... you can execute two different throws on BT opponents and wind up with the same animation.....

What happens when you execute :214::236::F: or :236::236::F:on a BT opponent ?
 
Chapstick

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
6T, 214T, 33T, BURST, and RUSH all cause the BT oboro for the same damage but at different speeds. RUSH is also still an OH
 
Lulu

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Chapstick said:
6T, 214T, 33T, BURST, and RUSH all cause the BT oboro for the same damage but at different speeds. RUSH is also still an OH
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Yeah Tina does that too..... different move details and properties on start up but same throw and damage on impact.

Its just one of those things, ya'know. :confused:
 
Intelligent Alpha

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
That is awesome, Chapstick! But (there's always one of these) ...

The "must hold Alpha!" bullshit! How many red negative numbers on BLOCK are in that list? This, of course, means her opponents (including herself in a mirror) are POSITIVE when blocking. It's hilarious how punishable she actually is, but everyone agrees that the other clone is more unsafe and you see it on billboards to block and punish! that clone, but not this one!

Um, for the parries - both leave Alpha at or near or perhaps > a one second or 60 frame advantage due to the serious KB! Yet, I am wondering since she has offensive moves when not held that cause KB:

4K6K, any critical blast setup only to do 66P after the blast. FLT P BT 7 or 9K would it be safer since if you're looking for damage, it's best used when she is pinned to a wall unfortunately or in a slump (facing towards opponent) or hunched over (BT - after being thrown into - won't always get that animation though) See: the correct combo challenge against the Kasumi dummy where you have to 1H her first.

Also, that 214/236 "can be performed with" - is that "~ into?" I've done BURST~OBORO and RUSH~OBORO.
 
Lulu

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Intelligent Alpha said:
That is awesome, Chapstick! But (there's always one of these) ...

The "must hold Alpha!" bullshit! How many red negative numbers on BLOCK are in that list? This, of course, means her opponents (including herself in a mirror) are POSITIVE when blocking. It's hilarious how punishable she actually is, but everyone agrees that the other clone is more unsafe and you see it on billboards to block and punish! that clone, but not this one!

Um, for the parries - both leave Alpha at or near or perhaps > a one second or 60 frame advantage due to the serious KB! Yet, I am wondering since she has offensive moves when not held that cause KB:

4K6K, any critical blast setup only to do 66P after the blast. FLT P BT 7 or 9K would it be safer since if you're looking for damage, it's best used when she is pinned to a wall unfortunately or in a slump (facing towards opponent) or hunched over (BT - after being thrown into - won't always get that animation though) See: the correct combo challenge against the Kasumi dummy where you have to 1H her first.

Also, that 214/236 "can be performed with" - is that "~ into?" I've done BURST~OBORO and RUSH~OBORO.
Click to expand...

They are nuances to some of Alpha's moves the prevent her from being throw punished.... like her Mid kick critical burst... its highly negative but it also has alot of push back.... maybe it can be strike punished... and she also can't be throw punished while she's floating.... I only wish she had more Float Cancelling Moves.

But even then... she doesn't have all those other natural advantages like her sisters do..... this is what makes Alpha feel more like a Grappler than a rush down character since on paper characters like Bass and Leon have similar disadvantages on paper.... a significantly much stronger emphasis on Mind Games is required to make Alpha viable against someone like Kasumi or and even more so against characters that get positive frames even if they attack blocking opponents like Rig and Sarah....

And shes not the Only One.... Brad Wong has a similar mind game approach to his playstyle to compensate for his weaknesses.
 
Chapstick

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
Intelligent Alpha said:
That is awesome, Chapstick! But (there's always one of these) ...

The "must hold Alpha!" bullshit! How many red negative numbers on BLOCK are in that list? This, of course, means her opponents (including herself in a mirror) are POSITIVE when blocking. It's hilarious how punishable she actually is, but everyone agrees that the other clone is more unsafe and you see it on billboards to block and punish! that clone, but not this one!

Um, for the parries - both leave Alpha at or near or perhaps > a one second or 60 frame advantage due to the serious KB! Yet, I am wondering since she has offensive moves when not held that cause KB:

4K6K, any critical blast setup only to do 66P after the blast. FLT P BT 7 or 9K would it be safer since if you're looking for damage, it's best used when she is pinned to a wall unfortunately or in a slump (facing towards opponent) or hunched over (BT - after being thrown into - won't always get that animation though) See: the correct combo challenge against the Kasumi dummy where you have to 1H her first.

Also, that 214/236 "can be performed with" - is that "~ into?" I've done BURST~OBORO and RUSH~OBORO.
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She has access to her 7K from a lot of strings which gives her safety. Then when people start expecting it you can stop and 2P or something because that low kick followup is really goddamn slow and telegraphed.

The can be performed with thing is just saying using that input on a BT opponent will turn it into BT oboro. A 7f punish throw that does 78dmg is pretty good imo, good for Ayanes that like to throw out raw 4P's
 
Lulu

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Chapstick said:
She has access to her 7K from a lot of strings which gives her safety. Then when people start expecting it you can stop and 2P or something because that low kick followup is really goddamn slow and telegraphed.

The can be performed with thing is just saying using that input on a BT opponent will turn it into BT oboro. A 7f punish throw that does 78dmg is pretty good imo, good for Ayanes that like to throw out raw 4P's
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Conditioning Sttategy... love it !
 
Intelligent Alpha

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
Chapstick said:
She has access to her 7K from a lot of strings which gives her safety. Then when people start expecting it you can stop and 2P or something because that low kick followup is really goddamn slow and telegraphed.

The can be performed with thing is just saying using that input on a BT opponent will turn it into BT oboro. A 7f punish throw that does 78dmg is pretty good imo, good for Ayanes that like to throw out raw 4P's
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7K is only useful as an ender! -4 means nothing because what are the odds somebody will not hit a button aka mash upon returning to neutral? Yeah, she can WARP afterwards, but since she can get mashed out of NORMAL HOLDS (yet, everyone thinks its stupid she can turn on a dime continuing KKKKK).

2P, eh, but I don't want this to turn into some TIna BS. Her 2P also @ -4 vs. Alpha's :P: doesn't get beat because of hit level? And the grappler playstyle doesn't work. You see how the legit ones are pretty much screwed - on paper, but seems to be the case in practice, too

@Lulu: Cpnditioning: I do it, but guess the label I get?
 
Lulu

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Intelligent Alpha said:
7K is only useful as an ender! -4 means nothing because what are the odds somebody will not hit a button aka mash upon returning to neutral? Yeah, she can WARP afterwards, but since she can get mashed out of NORMAL HOLDS (yet, everyone thinks its stupid she can turn on a dime continuing KKKKK).

2P, eh, but I don't want this to turn into some TIna BS. Her 2P also @ -4 vs. Alpha's :P: doesn't get beat because of hit level? And the grappler playstyle doesn't work. You see how the legit ones are pretty much screwed - on paper, but seems to be the case in practice, too

@Lulu: Cpnditioning: I do it, but guess the label I get?
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A cheater who spams the same moves over again ?
 
Chapstick

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
Intelligent Alpha said:
2P, eh, but I don't want this to turn into some TIna BS. Her 2P also @ -4 vs. Alpha's :P: doesn't get beat because of hit level? And the grappler playstyle doesn't work. You see how the legit ones are pretty much screwed - on paper, but seems to be the case in practice, too
Click to expand...
A neutral 2P is a great tool in this game especially as a fast character. The amount of times I can CH someone and start a good stun with a P or 6P after 2P'ing is amazing
 
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