Nope we have not everyone is welcome to share character knowledge on improvements it's the whole point of a FGC site in the first place. What cool kids table you mean the word that Awesmic made up or you mean a bar at offline events i don't get it. Your asking for the impossible why does the Online community feel like their entitled to everything from doing nothing at all which doesn't only mean going offline.
This is a whole other can of worms that I was hoping i would not have to discuss again. You see, i've heard a few (select few) people say before that they refuse to invest at all to solving the mashing problem (the last set of move changes and the talk in TN's video tutorials show that TN is already interested in addressing it themselves). You see, the issue is, the same people who may or may not have been helped by you before are probably not the same people asking for help now. You're making a very counter-productive move by assuming that it'll always end up the same way (that people get help and don't end up working to return the favor by becoming helpers themselves). This issue is not restricted to online, though it's going to be pronounced more online where there are many more people (and less people who have a personal connection and thus have less incentive not to disappoint you). This "us and them" mentality only closes our minds so that we don't address the actual issue. It's a cop-out. I can understand being frustrated with trying to teach people and they end up quit showing up to lessons, choose not to help others, ignore lesson advice (without feedback, because if something isn't working for someone and they choose to ignore advice, but can explain their reasoning behind it, you actually have something to work with and against to still produce a result), etc. I deal with this every damn time someone says "Hey, Kohlrak, teach me programming," or "Hey, Kohlrak, teach e Japanese," or "Hey, Kohlrak, teach me X." But you know what? Out of the n>10 people online that have request of me me, I've actually had people learn (<10). Out of the n<10 offline people, no one ever shows up or contributes anything. People want results without effort. I understand, but how can people contribute if they don't have anything to contribute? People try vocalizing their weaknesses, only to get generic answers (some try to help though, so not all is lost).
Why does the online community talk trash about players offline even when they are supporting events so Online players or not innocent. Offline players are humble and try to talk with players to have an understanding but if Online players don't want to meet them halfway then that's unfair. Your just Demanding we do it while majority work their hardest to get at that level so Online/Offline have their ups and downs so pulling out Vitim cards in both party's are in the wrong so don't act like online is so innocent.
I only ever really hear the online community bash the offline community when it comes to elitism. Humility comes out of the investment (and potentially subconscious desperation resulting from investment). I've seen how plenty of these "humble" people act on here (fortunately, only a certain few offline people are like this, making for a loud majority, which those who are not using the offline venue need to come to understand before this gets worse than it needs to be).
Online and offline are two very different worlds which we can't seem to meet eye to eye not even on this post, with that being said i'm done responding either you accept reality or you don't and everyone says this all the time. Another meaningless Debate again that goes nowhere yup.
This is the mentality that perpetuates the online-offline issues. If this were a private conversation, I wouldn't've even responded. However, it is a huge disservice to the people trying to build this community to not address this pompous stupidity, as this is the kind of crap that splits communities. So if reality means we cannot get along, then why do we even have a community? What is the justification? Why do you even come here? What purpose could your words possibly serve outside serving your own ego?
Nice write up Boobiebombs and great suggestions.Sadly here is the problem with the DOA community as a whole. Its very dysfunctional. I've been playing the DOA series since it began. And as a competitive community DOA is fairly young.Considering it really didn't get any competitive attention by the community as a whole until DOA 4.
Here is my 2 cents on the community and why its even more split now than it was almost 10 yrs ago
* DOA 5 is the most controversial game in the series. Controversial meaning the casual and competitive players have a love/ hate relationship with the game. The casuals and fans of the game are not to fond or like the new technical aspects and mechanics. While the more vocal competitive players are not fond of all the costumes and fanservy fluff of the game.
*The majority of the fan base does not want nor care about DOA5 as a game to be taken seriously.Why? Because the high level DOA community comes off as being boring,cruel,unyielding,unwelcoming, and makes being good at the game seem like work. Basically it seems like no one has fun playing this game at a competitive lvl.Why.......?
I disagree. Competition is always fun, as long as it's friendly.
*DOA 5 is the first game in the series that doesn't play like a DOA game.DOA as a series was created to be the anti serious 3d fighting game. It was never meant to be a technical game.It was a VF clone with boob physics,with a simplistic rock,paper,scissor game structure.The creator never wanted DOA to be the deepest game.Just a sexy fun game to play.
I don't know what it was meant to be. I wasn't here for that. What i do know is, even before 5, it became much more serious, even to the point where there's enough going on that it's very realistic. Moreso than other fighting games. It was this that had me get dimensions and then 5, and 5 seems to fit nicely.
* I'm an ol school DOA player.I put in my time supporting the game and the community by hosting tournaments in my area back in the day. DOA5 is the first DOA game I an honestly say I don't enjoy playing.I can't say its because I'm old and and just don't have the reactions I used to. Because I still hold my own in DOA 2 Ultimate,DOA4, and DOA 3.But DOA 5 I just can't get into its mechanics. I can play VF,I can play Tekken.DOA 5 comes off as being an ass backwards game. Other games still hold on to its core mechanics. DOA 5 core mechanics are very Schizo in the fact its so offense heavy with so many offense heavy options that it overrides the triangle system. I would say the simplest fix would be to make the counter holds do more damage and lengthen the window of them. But it wouldn't fix the game.
I think that's because of the whining and the push to become more like other fighting games. I don't like it either, but it is what it is.
*Quite frankly in my opinion Team Ninja should have not took so much input from the high level community concerning DOA5. The DOA high level community is not that big to begin with.And those that did whine over past DOA gameplay were only less than 5% of the fan base and players as a whole.
Such is the competative community with other games, except for strange games like Kid Icarus where the competitive community effectively hijacked and ruined the game.
* Another reason why people don't openly support the game the majority of the young generation of gamers are a bunch of whining over sensitive entitled brats. Anything in geek culture that is "sexualized" offends them.
Geek culture is notorious for sexualization (rule 34 is very much a geek term). However, DoA noticeably tries to push things to the limits, and even very much beyond. However, the geek culture prefers cannon materials of something to be less sexual. TN is as open as they can be about sexuality, and this in particular is what isn't popular. Geek culture seems to generally prefer fetishism to be grass roots.
The biggest and most vocal are the guys surprisingly. Prime example is the dumb soft ban idea. Even if you made all the female characters flat chested loli's and put them in potato sacks many players in the FGC won't play this game because the DOA community doesn't know how to appreciate its own game.Big tits, sexy costumes,pretty men, game play,ect.All of it has to be fully accepted and supported by not just the high level competitive players,but the DOA community as a whole.
The reputation DoA carries must be fixed, first. FGC players generally stick with their favorite game, anyway. The real targets for DoA expansion should be people outside of the FGC altogether. And if DoA were to be toned down a bit, they might even get people who aren't even normal VG players interested in it (honestly, if people can get into flappy bird but not DoA (especially when it has F2P versions), then something's obviously turning them away [and it's either sexuality, the learning curve, or both]).
* I agree that playing games in online lobbies is like going to a drug intervention. Consider me an addict.I luv DOA as a series. I hate DOA 5.Yet... I still play it. I've been to few offline events and hosted a few. Only things people say about it is that
"its pretty.....and uh its kinda fun.The chics are hot.....so uh yeah. So Whats the pot prize for winning a tourney?"
I find this quite sad really. I put in DOA2U or DOA 4 and the players found those games more fun to play.
Yeah, they're simpler. Sidestepping has really changed this series more than people realize. However, i think that was for the better. It just needs a better method for being a nobody to competently beating people.
* In the end a game has to be universally fun to play. Until DOA is universally accepted by its own fan base and the vocal members of the high level DOA community stop trying so hard and being so serious about making the game accepted in the FGC. Then maybe you will see more people talking about the game in a positive light. Right now the community is dysfunctional.Hell I've noticed that not many of the top players travel to the west coast for DOA majors now. A good chunk of the top players are now just mercenaries.They just play for the money.
I don't go to tournies, so i don't know, but i don't think that's true. Especially when most people show up knowing they probably aren't even going to place. Is it overhyped more than it should be? Yeah, probably. But for those outside of the community, it looks pretty and sounds cool. It's great publicity for a game when you can get a bunch of people to get together and play for money. Issue is, the game's not popular enough for that to actually have an effect. I think it's too much too early.
* Oh another thing that bugs me is that DOA matches being announced and the commentary on stream is boring most of the time.You want people to get hype,get an announcer that's more of a hype man and less of DOA frickin scientist. Knowing the intricacies of the game and whats going on is fine.But announcing a match should be more entertaining and less of DOA game play tutorial. I found Spooky's announcing more entertaining than the majority of the players that got put on the mic.I don't play mahvel all that well yet I watch the matches on stream because the commentary at times is more entertaining than the matches.
That'll come with game power. My understanding is, they need regular players to commentate, but they're players, not announcers. And from what i've seen, they hardly sound like tutorials, rather they sound more like a tech exchange. I'd rather it be a tutorial, IMO. However, people like to talk tech, so that's what they speak about, so the people who are already watching have no problem following along or enjoying it.
Basically some of ya'll need to loosen up.Try to make the game seem appealing by having fun when your behind the mic. Say some jokes.Bring up funny stories about the players.
I dont think that would work nearly as well as mimicing sports commentators. They hype a game by yelling and making junk slogans.
QUOTE="Raansu, post: 258201, member: 6042"]Its all in your head. I'd say competitive players have more fun than the casuals. Casuals are too busy complaining and getting defensive over everything.
Aah Good ol Raansu.The DOA 5 defender.Well of course the competitive pro players(all maybe 70 of you) are having more fun.Considering that you finally got a DOA game that plays to "your" standards.If the game wasn't so ass backwards, online servers wasn't so crappy, and Team Ninja was nickel & dimeing the players when it came to costumes.The Casual,long time fans, and veteran players wouldn't complain so much. But thats just my opinion.[/quote]
Can we all take a moment and appreciate this line? I swear it's from a movie, but i'm not sure what movie.
I had a very long written cmment addressing each and every one of your comments. You and I have been through this before.You tend to try to tea bag(showingthat you have a bigger pair of nutz) on people who you don't agree with or like. In response I tend to use my ovaries as nunchuks as a form of self defense.With that being said we will just have to agree to disagree when it comes to DOA game play mechanics as a series and as a game.'ve explained my opinion numerous times ad nauseum over the past 2 years on this forum.I don't feel the need to explain mysef again.With that being said I will do my best to stay on topic.
I want to address this, but it's hard with this line. But I shall. Please, give us examples of your oh great wisdom. You could at least link us to these posts.
I practice what I preach.And because of that I got every right to put the game and the community on blast. If you truly read my post I listed the problems, yes.But also a few ways to fix them.If you read between the lines you would find solutions. But here I'll make it easy by listing ways the community can improve. Without needing to change the game. In the end its up to the community as a whole to decide the fate of the series. As long as the game makes money and Team Ninja contnues to make the game.It doesn't really matter what many of the high level offline competitive scene(which is less than 25% of the games players ) feel concerning the casual and online players.
You'll have to pardon Team Ninja and TK, as almost the entirety of both speak 日本語 as their native language, and I would like to apologize to you on their behalf. Make your solutions clearer from now on, please.
I will say this though the FSD members ae a reourceful bunch.Considering you guys convinced Team Ninja to buy into your bullshit and tailor a game to what you guys enjoy.You guys should spend just as much effort in helping the community come together
What movie did this line come from again?
*The most vocal members of the FSD community needs to stop coming off as all knowing authoritative jerks to the rest of the DOA community.Especially those more vocal members who are not winning and are not participating in many of the major offline tournaments.
The issue is, a good portion of them are all knowing (at least about matters of the game, but not so much people outside of their community [it would seem]). I would rather they not keep conveying the same knowledge over and over again in the same ways when it clearly doesn't make a difference (though, at least they're still trying to put stuff out, which is better than being like some).
* The majority of the high level community needs to practice what it preaches by leading by example.I feel the FGC in general needs a form of social etiquette. So its not just a DOA community issue.
I agree with this, actually. However, as we've seen a few posts above, people have trouble being a good guy when they feel they're surrounded by bad guys.
*Granted I know high level players get bashed on.I get it.I've even experienced it.But most of you guys are in your mid 20's to early 30's.Your adults so act like one.
Please tell me you won't go to McDonalds, get in the ball pit, surrounded by kids, and, without doing so because you're upset with your child for not coming out to eat or go home, stand there grumpy while they pelt you in the face with the plastic balls. If not, please realize that's essentially what you're telling us to do. And it gets better, scientifically speaking, it's harder for grown men to maintain adult-hood in the presence of boobs, regardless of whether they're real or pictures on the screen. It's much like the
Cat Proximity comic.
* Luv and support your game.You got to accept the big tits,sexy costumes,and flawed game play mechanics. As much as I talk shit about the game and hate what it has become. I still support it by playing it,watching tournament streams,and if time permits host or go to local offline events.
And coming off like a party pooper every step of the way! Go you!
* The high level community needs to realize that many in the the casual fan base knows what it takes to be good.
Actually, you'd be very surprised. Enlighten us with your very specific wisdom.
Sadly DOA5 is not the most fun to play when it comes to high level play. But that's because there have not been a set standard of play to which the community as a whole agrees with. The high level community needs to sale high level play as being exciting and fun.You can't just tell people to get better or have them buy into high level play by being "alpha male" about it.I know a few of you lack the social skills.So you need to elect the more positive outgoing members to sale people on the fun of high level play.
Although i agree, in your case, it's the pot calling the kettle black.
* Make commentary on streams fun and engaging. I'm tired of hearing frame data numbers and the fact that so and so got whiffed punished 30 times in a match.Because I can see that during the course of the match.We need to have one frame data nerd and one out spoken DOA fan/ high level player with sense of humor share commentary duties.
Well, we know one thing's for certain. While we're busy searching for one, we can skip right over you.
* The community as a whole needs to learn to agree to disagree.Without resorting to butt hurt induced personal attacks.Treat each other how you want to be treated.Haters will hate.Ignore them.But if a player or a fan has a valid difference of opinion don't go attacking them.
Will you take your own medicine if it is given to you?
*No buts! Meaning stop making excuses or reasons to bash on the community as a whole.
But... But...
*FSD as a site and a community needs to stop separating itself from the rest of the community.You eat
,sleep,breathe, and shit like everyone else.Just because the majority of this sites members excell at the game doesn't make you better as a person.Your great in a video game and that's great.Some of you get paid and make a living doing it. But no one likes an egotistical prick.Humble yourselves before you attempt to humble others.
Aside from the implication that the majority of people here (let alone the majority of competitive players) are like this, i agree. Though, i'd love to know who actually does this as their fulltime job. Because, frankly, me and them need to get real close.
*Stop trying to enforce moral ideals on the community as a whole.No one cares if big tits and skimpy outfits offend you. It sounds even more dumb when said whiney players chooses mostly female characters.We get that you like your DOA ladies classy and want the game to seem viewer friendly.
I love the logic, here. You admit that classy ladies are more viewer friendly, but cannot connect viewer friendliness with "everyone." You see, outside of the FGC, people actually do care. If they didn't, how would classy ladies be more viewer friendly? It's self-explanatory: viewer-friendly means that the game is being friendly to the viewers (which we are hoping to be outsiders). I know the commentary doesn't help, but can't we all come to realize that there's a connection between skin, character age, player age, and controversy? (That last sentence was more or less directed at everyone.)
But the majority of the players didn't buy or support DOA as a series because of less skin being seen. And I can speak as a female gamer and player that I don't need wannabe feminists and White Knights deciding how I should see and enjoy the game.With out DOA's sexy content it would just be known as that shallow VF clone with counter holds. If the male DOA characters can go around topless in tight shorts than the players should have no issues with the female characters in skimpy outfits. You want gender equality than there it is.At least the female characters are not completely topless.
I would rather put shirts on the men, anyway, because everyone running around shirtless is just as bland as swimsuit X. I'm ready to see a true casual collection, where people dress how normal people dress casually (Jeans, sweatpants, etc), as opposed to how you dress to go to overly informal or overly formal events. I really like some of the more obscure male outfits in the game like Bass' C7, C14, and C1. Bayman has a nice C3, C6, and C13 is da bomb. Eliot's selections in general are nice. Gen Fu's C11 is probably my favorite in the game. C3, C4, and C8 of Jacky are sweet. C3, C6, and C7 on this page of Jann Lee are making me rethink whether or not i can look at him long enough to learn him (i've traditionally hated his costumes as they feel so out of place). Rig can get away with shirtlessness, but only because his type of character is usually like that in real life (bad boy/mechanic). I really wish Zack would get some normal outfits, though.
DOA still has a large female fan base.Yet you don't see too many of them openly complaining about "sexualization".DOA could use more pretty dudes though ^_^.
Of course. Classy generally doesn't have the same feeling for women that it does for men. But that'd end up in a very long discussion that should never take place on public forums.
It doesn't require much just effort by the high level community to fix things Just an opened mind and a bit of kindness.
I think the high level community would be better off by relaxing and keeping up hope that not everyone they try to help is going to betray their kindness.
