Soapbox: Community Activism and the DOA Narrative

[Matt Ponton]

I have an honest question, I always tend to stay bipartisan on things so I typically never hear of "dramatic" incidents like "experienced players talking down to inexperienced players" or the like. Yet, I often see people complaining about such things.

Because I have to ask, where is it all happening? Is it because I don't play online? Is it because people aren't reporting posts on FSD? Is it because Facebook is a cesspool of humanity? Maybe its because no one wants to bring it to my attention if its happening at a tournament I'm running brackets for?

A better understanding of where the problems are coming from can help everyone in making the community a better place.

Me personally, I've been in multiple communities - especially during the dry spell of DOA4. I've seen how other communities are worse than ours first and second hand. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean our community is excused from doing some of it. There's just times I see people state ours is the worst and I just have to disagree.

 

[Rikuto]

In the greater FGC there are two constants.

1. The grass is always greener on the other side.

2. There are a lot of inexperienced young adults who love to speak passionately about irrelevant crap.

 

[Omega Ayane]

I have an honest question, I always tend to stay bipartisan on things so I typically never hear of "dramatic" incidents like "experienced players talking down to inexperienced players" or the like. Yet, I often see people complaining about such things.

Because I have to ask, where is it all happening? Is it because I don't play online? Is it because people aren't reporting posts on FSD? Is it because Facebook is a cesspool of humanity? Maybe its because no one wants to bring it to my attention if its happening at a tournament I'm running brackets for?

A better understanding of where the problems are coming from can help everyone in making the community a better place.

Me personally, I've been in multiple communities - especially during the dry spell of DOA4. I've seen how other communities are worse than ours first and second hand. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean our community is excused from doing some of it. There's just times I see people state ours is the worst and I just have to disagree.

I've never had a conversation with an experienced player where they've talked down to me. I have quite a few of them on fb as friends and frequently go to them when I have issues with tech, etc.

I've had people talk crap to me online, but that's just from them being salty. The competitive players that I know and have seen in lobbies etc, have never started crap that I know of. Which is part of why I do like being apart of DOA. But I give respect where respect is due, and certain people didn't even have it and lost it. But thats just me

 

[oMASTER LEGENDo]

Talking down to inexperienced players is a myth majority of these complaints are because when someone who do know what their talking about try's to help someone understand, they don't wan't to take the advice given. Instead they throw it right back at their face which is disrespect experienced players i ran into never given me trouble at all also because i have ears. These types of people are mad because they can't have it their way all the time and wan't to bitch and never appreciate anything written to benefit them as a player. Competitive players work and study hard simple if you have no idea what your talking about they will correct you isn't that what Fighting game community's do. Time to Level up are Game

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

These last few pages is why I killed off the point I made before all this shit went down(even before Cyber was going to Thor Hammer me(though both you and Brute basically rock Hayabusa, I'm not sure if Cyber is a Hayabusa main so...).

This is all like 100% killing off the main point of the article here.

I have an honest question, I always tend to stay bipartisan on things so I typically never hear of "dramatic" incidents like "experienced players talking down to inexperienced players" or the like. Yet, I often see people complaining about such things.

Because I have to ask, where is it all happening? Is it because I don't play online? Is it because people aren't reporting posts on FSD? Is it because Facebook is a cesspool of humanity? Maybe its because no one wants to bring it to my attention if its happening at a tournament I'm running brackets for?

A better understanding of where the problems are coming from can help everyone in making the community a better place.

Me personally, I've been in multiple communities - especially during the dry spell of DOA4. I've seen how other communities are worse than ours first and second hand. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean our community is excused from doing some of it. There's just times I see people state ours is the worst and I just have to disagree.

I...honestly have to agree with Wah here.
In my experience of DOA and it's community, the absolute worst part of it is that we are not united and love to break our game to pieces...and even that is not all that bad compared to the typical toxicity of the FGC at large(when is the last time you seen someone from the DOA community act sexist? Or basically acted like absolutely no one but themselves matter? Or play the collusion game like no one's business? Etc.)

If anything, we just need more unity behind our game and our community as well as spread the word about tournies, streams and all that other stuff.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

What we often get (often is an understatement) is inexperienced players trying to disrespect the experienced players, a lot. We know this is true because when a much more experienced player corrects something, makes a suggestion, starts or continues a discussion, the inexperienced player often gets defensive and/or emotional quickly.

Thus this imaginative grudging begins and other means for a center of attention unravels. Players like this talk about respecting them when they do the exact opposite towards others.

Respect is earned, not demanded. If you want respect, then do something to earn it. Simply going to a single event does not deem you any respect, especially when you are not giving it in return. And it especially does not give you the right to go and belittle anyone either. You will never receive any kind of credit or recognition trying to carry yourself as you have been within' the community.

And if you want more behavior that is geared towards a positive effect on DOA, then things as stated in this thread's OP and the last 5 posts above mine are what need to happen.

What REALLY NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND NOT JUST BE SAID.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I've been in this community for over 10 years now.

I've seen it all, repeatedly (sadly). Basically, in the current discussion of Respect, it's typically someone who thinks they deserve more respect than they feel they are getting that causes a lot of the drama. In other words, the ones most typically complaining about drama are the ones who are the most dramatic.

However, I know that I'm given a lot of respect, and have been told by various people I do respect that I'm relatively humble. That said, I don't go out seeking or demanding respect from anyone. I do what I do because I want to do it. There apparently are a lot of people who give me respect for doing it (so yay, I guess).

Point is, if you go around demanding respect then you will just look like you don't deserve it.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

In the current DOA community, I don't think anyone should really be worrying about "respect" and should just be doing their thing to support the community whether it be:

- Setting up DOA5LR offline meets, along with trying to generate an offline scene
- Promoting DOA to the FGC in general in a positive light
- Developing & contributing tech to help out your fellow DOA players
- Helping people learn and level up their game

Along with all that good stuff that @boobiebombs outlined. Like @Mr. Wah implied, respect will come when respect is due. It never really needs to be requested or demanded. If you make proper contributions to the DOA community and competitive offline scene, along with showing due respect to those that deserve it, then respect will follow for yourself. For me personally, I don't respect the "top players" because they succeed and win the most, I respect them because they contribute to the offline competitive scene the most and have worked hard to get where they are.

An unfortunate barrier to our success (not "my" or "your" success) is that people let their egos get in the way too much. The DOA community isn't exactly in a position where something as petty as egos should be holding back its growth.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

In the current DOA community, I don't think anyone should really be worrying about "respect" and should just be doing their thing to support the community whether it be:

- Setting up DOA5LR offline meets, along with trying to generate an offline scene
- Promoting DOA to the FGC in general in a positive light
- Developing & contributing tech to help out your fellow DOA players
- Helping people learn and level up their game

Along with all that good stuff that @boobiebombs outlined. Like @Mr. Wah implied, respect will come when respect is due. It never really needs to be requested or demanded. If you make proper contributions to the DOA community and competitive offline scene, along with showing due respect to those that deserve it, then respect will follow for yourself. For me personally, I don't respect the "top players" because they succeed and win the most, I respect them because they contribute to the offline competitive scene the most and have worked hard to get where they are.

An unfortunate barrier to our success (not "my" or "your" success) is that people let their egos get in the way too much. The DOA community isn't exactly in a position where something as petty as egos should be holding back its growth.

This, exactly.

 

[Pictured Mind]

Can't be bothered with the bullshit in the comments, just wanted to say @boobiebombs is an amazing commentator and this is a nice thread.

 

[Raansu]

The last few pages have given me some hardcore flashbacks of the doac/doa2u hay days lol.....

 

[petopia]

TO be fair the FGC of the old were more aggro in the internet days of the now instead of words being spewed out in posts in forums, fights would almost be brought up in arcade parking lots of the 90s.

 

[Dark-truth]

Basically, just edit your previous post to include the new text if you are still the most recent post and it has not been 24 hours after the old post has been completed.

ohh i understand thx 4 the info mr wah

 

[Kohlrak]

Wow, i should've checked more often. I think i missed a goody.

I've been in this community for over 10 years now.

I've seen it all, repeatedly (sadly). Basically, in the current discussion of Respect, it's typically someone who thinks they deserve more respect than they feel they are getting that causes a lot of the drama. In other words, the ones most typically complaining about drama are the ones who are the most dramatic.

However, I know that I'm given a lot of respect, and have been told by various people I do respect that I'm relatively humble. That said, I don't go out seeking or demanding respect from anyone. I do what I do because I want to do it. There apparently are a lot of people who give me respect for doing it (so yay, I guess).

Point is, if you go around demanding respect then you will just look like you don't deserve it.

The saddest part about this is, is that people will see that and assume you're on their side, as opposed to analyzing themselves. I just want DoA to have some respect. On one hand, a game like Call of Duty gets respect in spite of it's community. On the other hand, a game like Minecraft surely only gets respect because of it's community. We can't sit and blame TN or the community when we have such clear examples.

Now that we can hold ourselves responsible for the lack of respect for our game, what are we going to do about it? I have my ideas of my own (though i don't want to go public with them without 1 or 2 volunteers to help me to try my ideas in practice). Where's everyone's roadmap to the solution to the problems they whine about? Whining how something sucks for you means nothing. The game is looking to expand, not focus on to holding onto people who will play anyway but whine. Frankly, i'm more interested in your friends, than you (broadly stated: not anyone in specific). I'm even moreso interested in coworkers, family members, and people you don't spend lots of time with. If you need to whine, because it takes community or developer response, cite people. The more distant your examles (while maintaining relevancy), the more likely it is to represent more people (and thus be more important). For example, i don't care that you can't win because of lag. I care about a room full of people saying the lag is unbearable, because that means that if i invest in a solution, it'll work for a room full of people, instead of 1 person. Seeing as how i can get online mash, and not win, the lag doesn't mean mash2win (this doesn't affect you, because it's me, for example). Instead, i'll work on the problem that i can identify with, since i know for sure it's real. Instead of whining, invest time into a solution (by either solving it yourself, or by citing healthy amounts of people with specified problem so that the community and/or developers can respect the broadness of the problem).

 

[Awesmic]

Wow, i should've checked more often. I think i missed a goody.



The saddest part about this is, is that people will see that and assume you're on their side, as opposed to analyzing themselves.

I know I am.

If you need to whine, because it takes community or developer response, cite people. The more distant your examles (while maintaining relevancy), the more likely it is to represent more people (and thus be more important). For example, i don't care that you can't win because of lag. I care about a room full of people saying the lag is unbearable, because that means that if i invest in a solution, it'll work for a room full of people, instead of 1 person. Seeing as how i can get online mash, and not win, the lag doesn't mean mash2win (this doesn't affect you, because it's me, for example). Instead, i'll work on the problem that i can identify with, since i know for sure it's real. Instead of whining, invest time into a solution (by either solving it yourself, or by citing healthy amounts of people with specified problem so that the community and/or developers can respect the broadness of the problem).

That's a good way of looking at things.

 

[lotr9690]

I seriously couldn't have said it better @boobiebombs!

Snobbery is one of the very large nails in the coffin.

Snobbery will keep this community fragmented and prevent it from elevating anywhere.

Well put.

• Never let the topic of breasts, pervertedness, or "slutty" costumes dominate any public conversation about DOA.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm just looking for some clarification - I don't want this portion to ironically dominate my post (but it probably will) haha. Before I say anything else I totally agree with you: it's annoying that DOA takes the brunt of the bizarre breast convention (no judgement) we always see in EVERY fighting game.

I would never advocate that we talk about those aspects (in @boobiebombs's quotation) at a tournament or other public event. In addition, I would hope we don't draw a ton of attention to those aspects. For example, not setting the breast movement to LR or OMG in tournaments as well as observing the soft ban. Not as a way of censorship. DOA's the only franchise (save Tekken and Soul Calibur) where there are outfits that embody youthful frivolity. Of course, I'm referring to youthful frivolity at the beach (7 swimsuit packs) LOL! If I see that in a tournament match, for me it removes all the tension and just makes me laugh. Which is the main reason I support the soft ban. Plus - people don't have to observe the soft ban so it's really no big deal. My post might just be completely useless.

Spoiler: Still related but a tad off-topic.

(This is a stretch from what you posted)
I feel it's okay to dedicate a forum (like the hypersexuality thread we have at FSD) where people can discuss the way female (or male) characters are visually (or personality-wise) portrayed openly without being judged for however they feel. I don't think that sort of thing makes us look bad.

@Force_of_Nature, to get me back on track I will just say everything you said haha! The biggest thing to me right now is evangelizing DOA to new players (can't think of the right term).

Closing thoughts:
Again, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes. I absolutely LOVED reading this post. I know that I am a debbie downer sometimes on the forums (aren't we all... at times?). I'll make an effort to be more actively hyped. It sucks when you are limited to only text on forums because people can't see how excited I really am/was/will be about DOA5LR -- even about the stuff I complain about! I sometimes forget how draining constant criticism can be. It also influences others perception on something they might really like. I felt really bad about the people who were excited about Honoka, for example - I'm still on the fence. I don't hate her or anything. She's just not too exciting to me.

Also... it's gonna be really challenging for me to not comment when TN reveals the June/July packs are swimsuit-esque for the girls. HAHA! For real though. I'm gonna have to shut up.

End it. This discussion is not happening again.

To be honest I haven't read much of this comment chain... if my post has anything to do with the discussion you are shutting down just let me know and I'll delete it. My comment may have some "sensitive" material and I genuinely don't want it to be baiting anyone. I also can't navigate the conversations that are happening

 

[Matt Ponton]

if my post has anything to do with the discussion you are shutting down just let me know

It's not.

 

[His Reverence]

In closing, I think it would be cool if we could delete our FSD accounts.

Clearly, no one can agree to disagree. People here consistently have an urge to look down upon others that share a similar hobby. Being short and condescending is where it's at. If that is the case then so be it. You folks have fun.

Let the top players do what they want with their offline tournaments. Let the casuals do what they want online. It is pretty apparent that the two can't seem to mix worth a shit.

DOA has a fragmented, and depressing, little community. I don't see it changing.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

To be honest I haven't read much of this comment chain... if my post has anything to do with the discussion you are shutting down just let me know and I'll delete it. My comment may have some "sensitive" material and I genuinely don't want it to be baiting anyone. I also can't navigate the conversations that are happening

He meant me and Rikuto, not you.

In closing, I think it would be cool if we could delete our FSD accounts.

Clearly, no one can agree to disagree. People here consistently have an urge to look down upon others that share a similar hobby. Being short and condescending is where it's at. If that is the case then so be it. You folks have fun.

Let the top players do what they want with their offline tournaments. Let the casuals do what they want online. It is pretty apparent that the two can't seem to mix worth a shit.

DOA has a fragmented, and depressing, little community. I don't see it changing.

That's exactly what this seems like to me and it's exactly the type of behavior that holds us back. So what if the casuals don't make it to tournaments all the time or not at all, that suddenly makes it justified to ignore any of their input because they won't be there? But what if they toss their hat in but can't do it every other time, does your point suddenly ring true or not?
They are still apart of the community and still matter to it whether you like it or not.
Because if we continue with that train of logic, then the offline community can make all levels of excuses of why TN should only listen to them and forget everyone else, which would absolutely piss off the casuals and even allow them to walk out, which will kill the game.

It's ridiculous how many times I see this error continue again..and again...AND AGAIN. It's just as prevalent in other FGCs(Street Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, you name it), but we shouldn't be like them as we have no legs to stand on to pretend you have any more merit than the casual community and vice versa.
I seriously cannot repeat and stress this enough:
"Before we move anywhere, what are we aiming to accomplish and how can we do this together as a community?"
Keyword together. I'll try my damnest to appear at the EVO side tourney but it's not as an offline player, but as a casual that has as much at stake as anyone else.
I represent this game like I do any other, I advise others do the same simply to prove the point that we still matter, offline or online otherwise.

 

[Goarmagon]

In closing, I think it would be cool if we could delete our FSD accounts.

Clearly, no one can agree to disagree. People here consistently have an urge to look down upon others that share a similar hobby. Being short and condescending is where it's at. If that is the case then so be it. You folks have fun.

Let the top players do what they want with their offline tournaments. Let the casuals do what they want online. It is pretty apparent that the two can't seem to mix worth a shit.

DOA has a fragmented, and depressing, little community. I don't see it changing.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with the online causals if SOME of them didn't take shots at people that they beat in questionable conditions or disagree with. Its seems to me that that's where a lot of the fragmentation bullshit comes from. That's not to say that some of the offline people didn't take shots of their own. Personally, I've come to the conclusion that I cant really get much from online but I wont clown people who don't want to/cant show up offline events. Live and let live is how I feel about it. I will just try to do what I can to help.