Kotaku "Dead Or Alive Is More Than Breasts"

[Kohlrak]

Seeing some of these comments, i've come to realize who it was who complained to TN that they didn't cross enough lines. I guess that because I don't want to invite my friends over and explain to them how this game is a game for fighting, when they will outright deny it, i am not here to play the game. You're right. I've bought two of these games (dimensions and 5U), i've spent hours on this site arguing with people on how the game could expand its reach to more people, but no, i'm secretly an agent from Nether Realm Studios trying to set this game up for it's destruction. You're right, i had no intention of taking this game seriously at any point, and i won't be happy until Nyo is wearing a long dress that drags across the ground and even covers her neck.

And then people wonder why we're so divided here. I just wanna see how well some of these people can defend the plot of a porno. Better yet, let's see them defend Fifty Shades just like all my underage coworkers. I think it's futile at this point. DoA will inevitably remain playable only in a closet. Denying these issues and complaining about having trouble at your local scenes is like Taylor Swift writing another breakup song denying that she's the problem. I have bad grades because my teacher hates me, not because i'm not doing my homework nor do i score well on tests.

But enough, there's no point to this, save to point out that there actually is no point to this so we stop trying.

 

[Malfury]

Seeing some of these comments, i've come to realize who it was who complained to TN that they didn't cross enough lines. I guess that because I don't want to invite my friends over and explain to them how this game is a game for fighting, when they will outright deny it, i am not here to play the game. You're right. I've bought two of these games (dimensions and 5U), i've spent hours on this site arguing with people on how the game could expand its reach to more people, but no, i'm secretly an agent from Nether Realm Studios trying to set this game up for it's destruction. You're right, i had no intention of taking this game seriously at any point, and i won't be happy until Nyo is wearing a long dress that drags across the ground and even covers her neck.

And then people wonder why we're so divided here. I just wanna see how well some of these people can defend the plot of a porno. Better yet, let's see them defend Fifty Shades just like all my underage coworkers. I think it's futile at this point. DoA will inevitably remain playable only in a closet. Denying these issues and complaining about having trouble at your local scenes is like Taylor Swift writing another breakup song denying that she's the problem. I have bad grades because my teacher hates me, not because i'm not doing my homework nor do i score well on tests.

But enough, there's no point to this, save to point out that there actually is no point to this so we stop trying.

What gets me is that when I'm playing someone, or trying to do something, I don't even notice nor care what my char is wearing. Only what they are doing and the situation I'm in. I think alot of this debate stems from what "other people" think of them from the outside looking in, and I think it's stupid to care about what they think. But in the big picture of things, I think TN could stand to release better DLC from now on. To see progress from them would make alot more people happier, in my opinion.

 

[Kohlrak]

What gets me is that when I'm playing someone, or trying to do something, I don't even notice nor care what my char is wearing. Only what they are doing and the situation I'm in. I think alot of this debate stems from what "other people" think of them from the outside looking in, and I think it's stupid to care about what they think. But in the big picture of things, I think TN could stand to release better DLC from now on. To see progress from them would make alot more people happier, in my opinion.

It does matter, though. If people and their opinions didn't matter, why are games so community oriented these days? Single player can just as easily be lifted up (though unfairly). And if they didn't matter, why are we even on a site talking about it? If opinions didn't matter to the people who didn't feel intimidated, why would they respond at all? Obviously it's hitting nerves.

I do want to address 1 point, however: the issue of the west caring more about violence than sexuality.

Yes, murder is worse than sexual promiscuity (though, the one can lead to the other, that's no excuse). However, murder is not a common enough issue. You go to a public school, and out of every classroom, you have maybe a 25% (i'm pulling the numbers out of my ass, but you can play with some actual statistics and the inequality statments should at least remain the same) chance to find someone who's been in a fight (which, btw, does not cause lasting damage usually, and scars less often the ego [unless there is a close relationship involved]). You know how many murderers in your school? Now, let's go ahead and count the sluts you have in each of your classes.

So what does this mean? In the west, we don't consider violence and murder seriously in our entertainment, because we don't believe the common child (and that's really the only thing we care about at the end of the day [otherwise games wouldn't be age rated]) is actually going to take it seriously and learn from it, and mimic the behavior. Sexual promiscuity, on the other hand, is a real issue (and for both genders). It even causes lasting emotional damage (because relationships are formed, which is where the violence becomes a long term emotional scare [except when the violence is excessive]). Why people have such a hard time understanding this is beyond me.

 

[Malfury]

It does matter, though. If people and their opinions didn't matter, why are games so community oriented these days? Single player can just as easily be lifted up (though unfairly). And if they didn't matter, why are we even on a site talking about it? If opinions didn't matter to the people who didn't feel intimidated, why would they respond at all? Obviously it's hitting nerves.

I do want to address 1 point, however: the issue of the west caring more about violence than sexuality.

Yes, murder is worse than sexual promiscuity (though, the one can lead to the other, that's no excuse). However, murder is not a common enough issue. You go to a public school, and out of every classroom, you have maybe a 25% (i'm pulling the numbers out of my ass, but you can play with some actual statistics and the inequality statments should at least remain the same) chance to find someone who's been in a fight (which, btw, does not cause lasting damage usually, and scars less often the ego [unless there is a close relationship involved]). You know how many murderers in your school? Now, let's go ahead and count the sluts you have in each of your classes.

So what does this mean? In the west, we don't consider violence and murder seriously in our entertainment, because we don't believe the common child (and that's really the only thing we care about at the end of the day [otherwise games wouldn't be age rated]) is actually going to take it seriously and learn from it, and mimic the behavior. Sexual promiscuity, on the other hand, is a real issue (and for both genders). It even causes lasting emotional damage (because relationships are formed, which is where the violence becomes a long term emotional scare [except when the violence is excessive]). Why people have such a hard time understanding this is beyond me.

I think alot of people don't realize that DOA isn't the only game currently suffering from an "outside" crowd of people jeering at the fact that the characters are too sexy, violent or simply anime. Hearing it enough times throughout the years, people stop caring and play what they want to play because they enjoy it. But yeah, I guess you are right. Opinions do matter. What's sexy and appealing to you could be totally different for me. And that's where the never-ending debate will continue. Arguing about DOA's sexual appeal will never end and we will never hear the end of it.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Seeing some of these comments, i've come to realize who it was who complained to TN that they didn't cross enough lines. I guess that because I don't want to invite my friends over and explain to them how this game is a game for fighting, when they will outright deny it, i am not here to play the game. You're right. I've bought two of these games (dimensions and 5U), i've spent hours on this site arguing with people on how the game could expand its reach to more people, but no, i'm secretly an agent from Nether Realm Studios trying to set this game up for it's destruction. You're right, i had no intention of taking this game seriously at any point, and i won't be happy until Nyo is wearing a long dress that drags across the ground and even covers her neck.

And then people wonder why we're so divided here. I just wanna see how well some of these people can defend the plot of a porno. Better yet, let's see them defend Fifty Shades just like all my underage coworkers. I think it's futile at this point. DoA will inevitably remain playable only in a closet. Denying these issues and complaining about having trouble at your local scenes is like Taylor Swift writing another breakup song denying that she's the problem. I have bad grades because my teacher hates me, not because i'm not doing my homework nor do i score well on tests.

But enough, there's no point to this, save to point out that there actually is no point to this so we stop trying.

And I have to say I completely disagree. My brother takes DOA as seriously as he does Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct and Street Fighter as a fighting game. My friends see it the exact same way, but they play too many other fighters to not really play it past me bringing it over for random game nights.

I don't see how this making me play the game like I'm in the closet, I'm openly playing it and I really have no one mocking me for it and as long as I don't give them a reason to mock, I feel absolutely nothing.

Everyone has issues with certain fighters(Street Fighter being too easy now, Blazblue being like a Visual Novel and too anime, VF is too boring, etc.) and DOA is no different. I'm not saying you shouldn't accept it, but people will still use it as a reason not to play it and you will still get people heckling it like any other fighting game so why bother?

 

[Kohlrak]

I think alot of people don't realize that DOA isn't the only game currently suffering from an "outside" crowd of people jeering at the fact that the characters are too sexy, violent or simply anime. Hearing it enough times throughout the years, people stop caring and play what they want to play because they enjoy it. But yeah, I guess you are right. Opinions do matter. What's sexy and appealing to you could be totally different for me. And that's where the never-ending debate will continue. Arguing about DOA's sexual appeal will never end and we will never hear the end of it.

It would if they changed a little, but that's asking a bit much. I feel like TN is more worried about not loosing what they have and less worried about picking up new people. However, like the hardware restrictions of the ps3, honesty is too expensive.

And I have to say I completely disagree. My brother takes DOA as seriously as he does Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct and Street Fighter as a fighting game. My friends see it the exact same way, but they play too many other fighters to not really play it past me bringing it over for random game nights.

I don't see how this making me play the game like I'm in the closet, I'm openly playing it and I really have no one mocking me for it and as long as I don't give them a reason to mock, I feel absolutely nothing.

Everyone has issues with certain fighters(Street Fighter being too easy now, Blazblue being like a Visual Novel and too anime, VF is too boring, etc.) and DOA is no different. I'm not saying you shouldn't accept it, but people will still use it as a reason not to play it and you will still get people heckling it like any other fighting game so why bother?

Because people who aren't hating on the game are complaining. The outsiders, the insiders, and the people who are fanboys of the rivals are 3 separate groups. I can easily marginalize your lack of need to hide int the closet just like you marginalize the haters. I know that if i got everyone i knew offline to try the game and like it, they still wouldn't invite people over to play, because they'd be too busy closeting the game, even from others they know that enjoy it. It's hard to be proud of DoA in its current state.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Because people who aren't hating on the game are complaining. The outsiders, the insiders, and the people who are fanboys of the rivals are 3 separate groups.

So the only people whose complaining is those who want change vs. those who don't?
Well obviously it's gonna be complaints because there are some people who want complete change, some who want a few changes and those who want none and people just laugh and laugh, you remember Lucky Chloe?
I seriously doubt everyone was agreeing with how bad she is and not just laughing at how ridiculous the Tekken community was acting.

 

[Kohlrak]

So the only people whose complaining is those who want change vs. those who don't?
Well obviously it's gonna be complaints because there are some people who want complete change, some who want a few changes and those who want none and people just laugh and laugh, you remember Lucky Chloe?
I seriously doubt everyone was agreeing with how bad she is and not just laughing at how ridiculous the Tekken community was acting.

And you're right. But what's that mean? Are the people on the outside who are laughing saying that it's overreaction, or is the majority of people saying "Wow, i'm glad i'm not them. It's funny as hell that they didn't see it coming and are only now complaining about it. Boy, am i ever glad i'm not a tekken player so i don't have to worry about what people have to say about me."? I'm sure there's people in both camps, and, unfortunately, we don't know the numbers. However, a little common sense can tell you what those numbers more than likely looked like compared to each other.

 

[Malfury]

And you're right. But what's that mean? Are the people on the outside who are laughing saying that it's overreaction, or is the majority of people saying "Wow, i'm glad i'm not them. It's funny as hell that they didn't see it coming and are only now complaining about it. Boy, am i ever glad i'm not a tekken player so i don't have to worry about what people have to say about me."? I'm sure there's people in both camps, and, unfortunately, we don't know the numbers. However, a little common sense can tell you what those numbers more than likely looked like compared to each other.

Okay, I see a bit clearer now where this is going.. and I think in real life, not many people pay it much mind except some of the vocal few. You're always gonna rustle someone's jimmies no matter what game you play. And even in DOA's current state, there's not much to be insecure or even ashamed about. It's a fighting game, it's a technical game where you put your mind and skills to the test just like any other game. THE ONLY sexual gimmick this game has is the costumes and breasts. But let's be honest here, what fighting game doesn't have sexy costumes and bouncing breasts these days? Also, what if I told you, that Soul Calibur IV went through the same bull shit DOA is going through today when it was big in the scene?

 

[Kohlrak]

Okay, I see a bit clearer now where this is going.. and I think in real life, not many people pay it much mind except some of the vocal few. You're always gonna rustle someone's jimmies no matter what game you play. And even in DOA's current state, there's not much to be insecure or even ashamed about. It's a fighting game, it's a technical game where you put your mind and skills to the test just like any other game. THE ONLY sexual gimmick this game has is the costumes and breasts. But let's be honest here, what fighting game doesn't have sexy costumes and bouncing breasts these days? Also, what if I told you, that Soul Calibur IV went through the same bull shit DOA is going through today when it was big in the scene?

And look where SC is now. But, let's go ahead. I've talked to people i know offline about DoA, showed them trailers, gameplay vids, etc. They all say they want nothing to do with that kind of smut. Just incase all the crackheads and 50 shades fans in my area (and online groups not associated with games that i'm in) suddenly find religion when talking about video games, why don't we just go ahead and talk to people you know offline and see what they have to say. I can say that i can make some pretty sleezey characters in VF5, and i know they had that in mind with the costume stuff there, but DoA5 just has this hidden thing about it that's so much worse than what i can come up with. Maybe it's the way they lay on the ground hyperventilating when they loose. Maybe it's the way they move. Maybe it's their voices. I don't know, so let's ask people outside of the FGC. Let's ask people outside of the standard gaming community. Let's see why something so "easily accessible" as DoA is not popular with them.

 

[Malfury]

And look where SC is now. But, let's go ahead. I've talked to people i know offline about DoA, showed them trailers, gameplay vids, etc. They all say they want nothing to do with that kind of smut. Just incase all the crackheads and 50 shades fans in my area (and online groups not associated with games that i'm in) suddenly find religion when talking about video games, why don't we just go ahead and talk to people you know offline and see what they have to say. I can say that i can make some pretty sleezey characters in VF5, and i know they had that in mind with the costume stuff there, but DoA5 just has this hidden thing about it that's so much worse than what i can come up with. Maybe it's the way they lay on the ground hyperventilating when they loose. Maybe it's the way they move. Maybe it's their voices. I don't know, so let's ask people outside of the FGC. Let's ask people outside of the standard gaming community. Let's see why something so "easily accessible" as DoA is not popular with them.

I have talked to people I know. Only 1 person I know doesn't like it, but that person hates video games anyway. And I noticed that people in my circle think this game is good looking despite never have played or heard of DOA. As a first impression, I think so too. But then again, most of the people I know are over the age of 25 and can easily see past these things and look at things with a mature opinion in mind. So with that said, it's safe to assume that everyone is going to have their own different opinions and experiences concerning this game.. or any video game, really. For us in the FGC, I think we deserve TN's attention over the concern over the DLC for sure, but as a game at it's core, it's a very good looking and fun game. That's why we're here. If you think games like SF4, BB, P4 etc aren't getting egged on by other people, then you are highly mistaken. Look at the smash community. Probably the most resilient community in the FGC. If they can do it, we can too.

 

[werewolfgold]

And look where SC is now. But, let's go ahead. I've talked to people i know offline about DoA, showed them trailers, gameplay vids, etc. They all say they want nothing to do with that kind of smut. Just incase all the crackheads and 50 shades fans in my area (and online groups not associated with games that i'm in) suddenly find religion when talking about video games, why don't we just go ahead and talk to people you know offline and see what they have to say.

People always "find religion" at the most convenient times, don't they? lol

I can say that i can make some pretty sleezey characters in VF5, and i know they had that in mind with the costume stuff there, but DoA5 just has this hidden thing about it that's so much worse than what i can come up with. Maybe it's the way they lay on the ground hyperventilating when they loose.

As a long time fan, I think that the lose poses kind of irked me in particular because it was just so over the top and almost trying too hard. And then, Ultimate showed up and it seemed like that was supposed to be a major selling point or something. Look at these "strong, empowered" women when they're vulnerable, sweaty, and panting heavily. And now it's creep shot time! YAY!

Well, Bayman's is kind of bad, too. But, TN wasn't exactly trying to sell the game on that. lol

I'm a special case because I'm a gamer living in Japan. So, I'm just beat over the head with sexual pandering day after day after day after day just by being even a tangential part of that demographic. Can't walk into a store, can't walk into an arcade. Nothing. It gets to be almost insulting after a while. Like, this is how I'm supposed to be fantasizing about women. Like, this is a completely integral part of what it means to be a gamer, or even say, a fan of anime. And there's not a lot I can do about it. Maybe I'm just too old. I might have been more down with it back in my teen years, but...

Sorry. Got a little vent-y. I'll try to ask some of my friends about what they think of DOA.

 

[MeadowSpirit]

Hmmmm I think we share a brain, there is nothing else I can add to this I completely agree with every point you've brought up. I rented MK and was done with it in 8 hours I bought injustice ($40) and traded it in within 5 days I'll give them this, stories in those games are pretty cool, but gameplay.....yeah. I've enjoyed DOA from DOA 1-5 and all I need is the Xbox One fightstick to get situation to get fixed and I'll be good.

Yeah, they really need to fix that! At least you've got a stick, though. I've been trying to land a PS4 fightstick for several months now. People should be fired at Mad Catz and Eight Arc. The former has been sold out of sticks for ages now, and the latter doesn't even MAKE a PS4 fightstick! Are those companies run by idiots? I'm prepared to buy one but they've got zilch to sell.

 

[Malfury]

Yeah, they really need to fix that! At least you've got a stick, though. I've been trying to land a PS4 fightstick for several months now. People should be fired at Mad Catz and Eight Arc. The former has been sold out of sticks for ages now, and the latter doesn't even MAKE a PS4 fightstick! Are those companies run by idiots? I'm prepared to buy one but they've got zilch to sell.

Seriously.. It's hard to play DOA on pad for me.

 

[DeadlyChase]

If you know Japan. Then you should know fan service. I don't see the problem in looking at fictional eye candy. I mean Japan loves fan service, and they aren't going to stop just because you're bitching about it. Either get with the culture or GTFO. Also ((Beaches)) ((Bikinis)) all public fan service. A lot of women don't have to wear two pieces, but many do, and you can find a nice one piece. Also look at TV, movies and other forms of media ((Fan service)) all day. We as humans love sex...What is the actually problem? Working as intended.

 

[lizardmech]

Kotaku and friends appear xenophobic and racist to me. Them and a few other american sites produce never ending stream of articles attacking Japanese games and media. I don't fully understand their motivation, I suspect they are financial rather than political, however the end result is the same they keep making hit pieces filled with puritanical angst targeting Japanese games, while similar content in western games does not get the same reaction.

I wish news aggregators would consider banning them as sources until they learn to behave or disappear. They ultimately have no interest in games, politics or anything besides writing divisive articles in the hope it will generate traffic for their site.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

The only thing I really liked from that article:

 

[Awesmic]

Kotaku and friends appear xenophobic and racist to me. Them and a few other american sites produce never ending stream of articles attacking Japanese games and media. I don't fully understand their motivation, I suspect they are financial rather than political, however the end result is the same they keep making hit pieces filled with puritanical angst targeting Japanese games, while similar content in western games does not get the same reaction.

I wish news aggregators would consider banning them as sources until they learn to behave or disappear. They ultimately have no interest in games, politics or anything besides writing divisive articles in the hope it will generate traffic for their site.

Post of the week.

 

[RH_Stealth]

Didn't read all the comments here. I'm just going to say that I do find it uncomfortable to play in front of people. If someone comes into my room and I'm spectating or playing a game mode you can pause, I will pause it and/or click the guide button, look through my friends list etc, until they leave. The sexuality is 0% of the reason I became interested in DOA. It makes me want to play the game less, not more.

 

[Soaring Zero]

Kotaku and friends appear xenophobic and racist to me. Them and a few other american sites produce never ending stream of articles attacking Japanese games and media. I don't fully understand their motivation, I suspect they are financial rather than political, however the end result is the same they keep making hit pieces filled with puritanical angst targeting Japanese games, while similar content in western games does not get the same reaction.

I wish news aggregators would consider banning them as sources until they learn to behave or disappear. They ultimately have no interest in games, politics or anything besides writing divisive articles in the hope it will generate traffic for their site.

I have to agree with this. Most american "game review" sites care next to nothing for fighting games other than SF. DOA honestly isn't any worse in the fan service area than SC or Tekken given their customization modes. But Japanese games always get a hard time from these kind of sites.