DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?

[werewolfgold]

more to the point, why do they think just the nipple is the only difference between sexy and obscene?

Its like when guys are shirtless, usually japan removes the nipples entirely. Thats awkward. or in DOA, where the girls don't have nipples even though their breasts are bare where we'd see nipples if they had any.

They may have swiped it from American influence (some Disney works as well as even some American comic books also don't have them). Some times it's kind of a weird thing where they appear and disappear depending on the shot (like they forgot to put them in sometimes). But, hey, human error.

An actual answer may be because the nipples are the "erogenous zones" as opposed to any other part of the chest. If you remove them, it's like you're only "alluding" to the fact that they're bare chested as opposed to them actually being that way.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

They may have swiped it from American influence (some Disney works as well as even some American comic books also don't have them). Some times it's kind of a weird thing where they appear and disappear depending on the shot (like they forgot to put them in sometimes). But, hey, human error.

An actual answer may be because the nipples are the "erogenous zones" as opposed to any other part of the chest. If you remove them, it's like you're only "alluding" to the fact that they're bare chested as opposed to them actually being that way.

Dude american comics show nipples.. quite regularly.
Just sayin.
Lol

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

.

 

[werewolfgold]

Dude american comics show nipples.. quite regularly.
Just sayin.
Lol

Bruh, did you miss the some part? Go check some earlier DC and Marvel comics if you don't believe me (you know, ones that would influence Japanese comics back in the day).

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Bruh, did you miss the some part? Go check some earlier DC and Marvel comics if you don't believe me (you know, ones that would influence Japanese comics back in the day).

lol .. well I can tell you that DC (Specifically the Vertigo branch) draws nipples and more sometimes. ... on both guys and gals

 

[Blash]

lol .. well I can tell you that DC (Specifically the Vertigo branch) draws nipples and more sometimes. ... on both guys and gals

Yeah, that comic you linked is almost 60 years old now, these days its a different story. Nipples as far as the eye can see....

 

[Argentus]

Yeah, that comic you linked is almost 60 years old now, these days its a different story. Nipples as far as the eye can see....

but then

Nip-B-Gone.

 

[31gma]

Also, look at Diao Chan's Dynasty Warriors render throughout the years

Spoiler

DW4

DW7

DW8

This all points to Koei Tecmo's doing seeing that there's a strong correlation with DOA's progression with skimpy outfits.

 

[Argentus]

Also, look at Diao Chan's Dynasty Warriors render throughout the years

Spoiler

DW4

DW7

DW8

This all points to Koei Tecmo's doing seeing that there's a strong correlation with DOA's progression with skimpy outfits.

on the other hand, other DW females actually covered up more, like the girl with the buzzsaw yoyo lance thing.

Spoiler

and most of the DW girls are actually rather conservative, with the exception of pantyshots.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Also, look at Diao Chan's Dynasty Warriors render throughout the years

Spoiler

DW4

DW7

DW8

This all points to Koei Tecmo's doing seeing that there's a strong correlation with DOA's progression with skimpy outfits.

Nah, that's really just her, the rest of the girls easily fluctuate between skimpy and not.

It's pretty much like Noh-hime from Samurai Warriors.

 

[Aerospark]

nipple

 

[GreatDarkHero]

Wow...

 

[David Gregg]

Come back to this thread to find a deep discussion on male nipples...

aaaaannnd I'm out.

 

[Darkton93]

Let me just point out that on the installation of Last Round for XB1, the girls install first. Even Alpha installs before the males. And in terms of the new characters, Honoka installs before Raidou.

But then, look at the Female Character Pack's icon vs. the Male Character Pack's icon and you'll notice that the girls are becoming very plentiful....

 

[werewolfgold]

Yeah, that comic you linked is almost 60 years old now, these days its a different story. Nipples as far as the eye can see....

I was speaking as to when the anime industry was getting started, though.

This is indeed an odd topic to be lingering on.

Let me just point out that on the installation of Last Round for XB1, the girls install first. Even Alpha installs before the males. And in terms of the new characters, Honoka installs before Raidou.

But then, look at the Female Character Pack's icon vs. the Male Character Pack's icon and you'll notice that the girls are becoming very plentiful....

You know. "Girl Power" and all that. And bikinis. Don't forget those.

 

[Soaring Zero]

I must admit I am surprised that this thread still has so much life in it. Reading the posts from the last few pages was indeed interesting. I too have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Jyakotu. The fanservice does not take away from the game itself. DOA5 is still a great game to play and one that I enjoy quite a bit. It is also one that I shall continue to enjoy regardless of how much T&A they show. All the fanservice does is give the game something of an image problem but to judge it based on that IS a bit immature imo and makes those that do so seem quite shallow. Then it may just be me. I've never been one to judge anything or anyone based solely on appearance. I also won't pretend I don't like some of the sex appeal. I enjoy it and I'm not at all ashamed to admit it. I still agree it could be toned down a bit but as a fighter, DOA is right now, the best it's ever been. People who ignore that just because it has a lot of fanservice are not the kind of people we want in the community anyway.

Oh and as far as the compatibility packs go, if you don't download them you cannot see the costumes they allow you to use even when another player uses them. You'll just see that character's default costume instead. They are also not required to play the game at all. I do not have them all and I can play on both PS3 and 360 just fine.

 

[werewolfgold]

I must admit I am surprised that this thread still has so much life in it. Reading the posts from the last few pages was indeed interesting. I too have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Jyakotu. The fanservice does not take away from the game itself. DOA5 is still a great game to play and one that I enjoy quite a bit. It is also one that I shall continue to enjoy regardless of how much T&A they show. All the fanservice does is give the game something of an image problem but to judge it based on that IS a bit immature imo and makes those that do so seem quite shallow. Then it may just be me. I've never been one to judge anything or anyone based solely on appearance. I also won't pretend I don't like some of the sex appeal. I enjoy it and I'm not at all ashamed to admit it. I still agree it could be toned down a bit but as a fighter, DOA is right now, the best it's ever been. People who ignore that just because it has a lot of fanservice are not the kind of people we want in the community anyway.

I think that people should try the game and see if they like the gameplay. But, DOA is in competition with various other fighting game titles. Even if someone does give it a shot, if something about the game puts them off (when it doesn't necessarily have to be that way), with there being other fish in the sea so to speak, it's something that TN needs to be aware off at the very least if they want to grow their base. Now, they may not care, as they're probably making bank right now. But, it kind of seems like a lot of people who even enjoy the fanservice think that maybe the brakes needs to be hit...like you.

If the fanservice doesn't "take away" from the game and people who judge it on the fanservice are immature and unwanted, then why do you think it should be toned down? Has it become a problem or hasn't it?

Oh and as far as the compatibility packs go, if you don't download them you cannot see the costumes they allow you to use even when another player uses them. You'll just see that character's default costume instead. They are also not required to play the game at all. I do not have them all and I can play on both PS3 and 360 just fine.

That's not perfect as a person may like one costume from a set and not any of the others. A filter doesn't have to be added obviously, but some people would find it welcome.

 

[Soaring Zero]

Well saying that anyone who judges the game based on the fanservice is immature and unwanted sounds kind of harsh. What I meant is that seeing that and then refusing to give the game a try is in a way "judging a book by its cover" so to speak and that is a usually something a shallow person might do. And I only think the fanservice has become a problem for the game's IMAGE only. While I personally am not put off from playing the game because of it, I can see how some would be especially with, like you said, there being other games out there. So them cutting back on it would benefit the way the game is viewed by others. Oh and good point about the compatibility packs. I had forgotten about that.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

If the fanservice doesn't "take away" from the game and people who judge it on the fanservice are immature and unwanted, then why do you think it should be toned down? Has it become a problem or hasn't it?

Alright I want to get onto this point specifically.

I've had to think about it for quite some time and I honestly believe this type of reasoning is pretty shallow considering what the fighting games usually have their females dress anyway. While yes, you can say the issue is the number of costumes, the issue is that only an actual few is relatively skimpy(NOT counting Beach outfits except the Venus on Lisa and the Bikini on Helena) compared to most of the more gratuitous fighters in other games. Hell, their default costumes are pretty tame compared to someone like Ivy or Sophitia's SC4 costume or Elysium or even Juri Han.

If you seriously have that much issues that you can't even go use other non-sexual costumes to write off a game without even playing it or watching high level play, yet act like something like Soul Calibur or Mortal Kombat is less gratuitous, I just laugh and call hypocrisy.

Having issues with the Counter system is something I can understand especially if DOA4 or DOA3 was their first game, the costumes is not a good reason, whether for milking or otherwise.

 

[werewolfgold]

If you seriously have that much issues that you can't even go use other non-sexual costumes to write off a game without even playing it or watching high level play, yet act like something like Soul Calibur or Mortal Kombat is less gratuitous, I just laugh and call hypocrisy.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there is no difference between DOA, SC, SF, and MK in how they treat their female characters (I think there are some differences, but whatever). Why does SF, SC and MK "get away" with it, when DOA doesn't? I think the answer is that there was always something about those games that "override" it, so to speak.

SC and MK has damn ridiculous stuff. SF even has some questionable design choices (lol @ the designer redrawing Chun-li's legs 8,000 times to get it right in SF2). But they always make it seem tangential to the larger atmosphere, story, or gameplay. Even though they have boobs, they're not jumping up and down screaming "COME PLAY OUR GAME! WE HAVE BOOBS!" every time someone may be listening. So, they get away with it. And then NRS even acknowledged that they effed up on some of their costume design choices for MK9 and are clearly making effort to "fix" that. And it's not like SC gets no flak for being dumb in its character designs. But, PS basically booted Taki and Setsuka from the game (for dubious reasons, but their replacements aren't as sexualized) and made sure to cover up Ivy more in SC5. They acknowledged when it was time to hit the brakes a little. SF4 just introduced a female character that literally has half of her face scarred. And those games felt confident in doing those things because sexual pandering isn't the "point" of their games. When Capcom releases costume packs for SF4, it doesn't feel like the priority is to make the outfits as sexy as possible (sometimes even to the detriment of who the specific character is).

I think TN has a problem in the fact that they make the "sexiness" the "point" of the game. To the extent where their marketing gives off the air of "if you're not playing this game because of the hot girls, awesome boob physics, or fetish outfits, then you may be doing something wrong". The idea of DOA being "that game" when others aren't isn't so widespread by some kind of fluke or mass delusion.

I don't think it's just about having a skimpy outfit here or there. A lot of the costumes are optional. But DOA has the issue where 70-80% of the time they put themselves in the public eye, it's because they just released a new copypasta fetish costume pack or Hayashi is talking about boobs. How does that not become shallow or immature in itself? Are TN really the ones showing maturity about their game and characters? I don't think sticking everybody in maid and nurse outfits equates to being mature about sex. (Just like MK isn't being that mature about violence or death.)

Now, why can MK be so dumb about violence when DOA can't be dumb about sex appeal? The only answer I can think of is that ending a brutal death match with ripping out your opponent's still beating heart makes more "logical" sense than going into battle wearing a Christmas ribbon covering up your naughty bits. (Maybe only slightly, though. lol)

Why can't DOA just be dumb about sex appeal without criticism? For me, I just think if that's your goal, there are better and more logical avenues than a fighting game to do that. And I think making that your goal when it doesn't fit ends up cheapening your characters. If NRS starting selling a stream of increasingly extra gruesome fatalities as DLC, I personally would think they'd be overdoing it as well and people would be within their rights to smack them upside the head.

I want DOA to be taken "seriously" because it does offer so many different things. And I want TN to have to confidence to market those other things more. It felt like they did, but then they lost it. I don't think their "situation" is going to change unless they do. Now, it's their game. They could probably actually keep most of the sexy stuff. But if they don't change the way they try to sell their game to people, they're just going to have to take the bad with the good perception-wise.

This post was longer than it should've been.