DOA5LR Tom Lee discusses Raidou, Honoka, and the Casual audience

In a recent article on Dead or Alive 5 Last Round by Siliconera, Tom Lee is interviewed and discusses some of the reasoning for Raidou's return and Honoka's selection. Be sure to read the whole article for full details, but here are some notable quotes by the Creative Director of Team NINJA:

I asked Lee why Team Ninja brought Raidou back. "Raidou was brought back because he is a fan favorite. Team Ninja definitely wants to see more villains in the line up. I personally love seeing more characters like this it brings balance to the cutesy girls [in Dead or Alive]," Lee replied.

Lee explained Team Ninja looks at stats and player feedback when creating new Dead or Alive fighters. Team Ninja’s data says in the Western market people have been playing wrestler type characters like Rig while in Japan they favor the female characters. "There are many guys on our team. I would like to see more characters like Raidou, for instance. But at the end of the day I think the numbers support the Honoka type of character," Lee said when talking about creating Honoka. "Maybe its a cultural difference, but sometimes in the East it’s dictated by aesthetics first and then the story is developed through character design. Rather than saying, the sister of so-and-so just got messed up by him, so let’s create a revenge story. Lots of times we review character designs and she seems like a 15 year old school girl, she’s coming home from school, let’s create a story about that."

"Interactive touch points have been switched up and added. Hot Zones have changed for some stages. There may be an addition to existing hot spots and it won’t be in all of the stages. Without telling you exactly where they are, we want fans who have been with us for the last two years to enjoy finding new things," Lee said.

Tom Lee also discussed the casual audience, sometimes eerily seeming like a direct response from Tomonobu Itagaki's recent comments towards the fifth entry of the series.

While it might feel broken for competitive players, one of the reasons why Danger Zone, a stage from the original Dead or Alive with explosive traps, was added was to appeal to casual players. "I think we learned is one of the things we wanted to do better is we’ve focused on giving competitive players. Making sure it’s balanced not just for players in the East, but players in the West. That was one of our biggest focuses in the last couple of years," Lee answered when I asked how Dead or Alive 5 evolved from from 2012 to now. "With Last Round, one of the things we wanted to do is not lose focus of our casual audience as well. When it comes to game balance and even the presentation of the stages we wanted to reel back and make the experience enjoyable for casual fans."

"We want to maintain that DOA has an easy point of entry for beginners. We want it to be an intuitive sort of experience instead of learning the move list for 30 different characters or whatnot. They can come in the beginning and button mash their way through, not only having success but looking good while you’re doing it. We want people to have a great time whether they understand a character or not. In mastering it, they will learn in trial and error," Lee elaborated.

Be sure to read the full article from Siliconera for further details.

 

See this is just mean.

Its like dangling hope in front of me, even though I KNOW any new stages will just be old stages (Which granted are better than current stages), and any new characters will be copycats or generic anime waifus.


Though I love Tom's response on Raidou.

"I personally love seeing more characters like this it brings balance to the cutesy girls"

YES. I hate ninjas with a passion but I'll be maining Raidou just to support that.

Other statements though, confuse me.

"Team Ninja’s data says in the Western market people have been playing wrestler type characters like Rig while in Japan they favor the female characters."

.....What? "Wrestler type characters...like RIG?!" I understand they meant to say that Westerners prefer grapplers, and more western type characters LIKE Rig, but the way they worded it....Rig aint a wrestler lol.

And the sad truth

"here are many guys on our team. I would like to see more characters like Raidou, for instance. But at the end of the day I think the numbers support the Honoka type of character"

"Maybe its a cultural difference, but sometimes in the East it’s dictated by aesthetics first and then the story is developed through character design. Rather than saying, the sister of so-and-so just got messed up by him, so let’s create a revenge story. Lots of times we review character designs and she seems like a 15 year old school girl, she’s coming home from school, let’s create a story about that."

I like that he's being upfront and honest about the reasoning behind her, at least.


And while I don't agree with the result, I like how he explained the new DOA1 stage.

"While it might feel broken for competitive players, one of the reasons why Danger Zone, a stage from the original Dead or Alive with explosive traps, was added was to appeal to casual players. "I think we learned is one of the things we wanted to do better is we’ve focused on giving competitive players. Making sure it’s balanced not just for players in the East, but players in the West. That was one of our biggest focuses in the last couple of years," Lee answered when I asked how Dead or Alive 5 evolved from from 2012 to now. "With Last Round, one of the things we wanted to do is not lose focus of our casual audience as well. When it comes to game balance and even the presentation of the stages we wanted to reel back and make the experience enjoyable for casual fans."

 

Pretty much what he is saying is that he wants TN to pander more to dudebro and/or "alpha" male loving players? That is kinda what I got from that above.

Anyways, I am glad that they plan on adding more content to the game. Can't wait to see it.

 

Pretty much what he is saying is that he wants TN to pander more to dudebro players? That is kinda what I got from that above.

.........wha?

 

"Maybe its a cultural difference, but sometimes in the East it’s dictated by aesthetics first and then the story is developed through character design. Rather than saying, the sister of so-and-so just got messed up by him, so let’s create a revenge story. Lots of times we review character designs and she seems like a 15 year old school girl, she’s coming home from school, let’s create a story about that."

Honoka confirmed for actually being 15. kappa

 

I don't find any of this upsetting but it's probably because I'm not surprised by it. Just gonna keep calm and carry on

 

I am just really annoyed with the Honoka bashing. Like if you don't like her at , but god damn. He acts as if her very existence is taking oxygen away from him.

The only "cutesy" girls in this game is Honoka and Marie Rose while they are plenty more macho macho male characters in the game. We barely know much about the character, give her a chance. And its not like she is just some schoolgirl who just said "I want to fight, I'll skip school today" out of the blue. She has a gift/curse that when she watch other fighters fight, she gains their abilities into her own fighting style. And with the possibility of her being related to Raidou along with her having powers, who knows how threatening she may actually be? Shoot Ingrid from Street Fighter appears as a young girl with a schoolgirl-esque outfit and she is the most powerful character in SF. Who is to say Honoka isn't pretty much the Ingrid of DOA (without being a goddess)?

Majority of fighting games have cute schoolgirls in them with just as moe girls in them. Shoot Sakura is one of the most iconic female characters in fighting games and video games in general and she is a schoolgirl who wears a schoolgirl outfit. Athena wears a school uniform and is a moe girl and she is a good fighter and is quite powerful as well.

I mean at least get to know the character before bashing her so much. She can appear to be way more then just what she appears as, and many characters like her have proved that.

And this guy works for TN? Lol way to be professional huh? And he clearly knows very little about DOA if he thinks Rig is a wrestler lol.

If you want more macho macho manly men like Raidou (which damn there evey fighting game is full of) then just say so, no need to drag Honoka or other female characters down to say that at all. But hey I guess he could have said it worse (like certain people here do) so thats pretty good then huh?

 

Very good interview by Tom Lee. In addition to what you have already pointed out, other interesting things that I read were:

Dead or Alive 5: Last Round has some changes that might surprise fans that played all of the DOA5 releases so far. "Interactive touch points have been switched up and added. Hot Zones have changed for some stages. There may be an addition to existing hot spots and it won’t be in all of the stages. Without telling you exactly where they are, we want fans who have been with us for the last two years to enjoy finding new things,"

Pretty interesting, I can't wait to experiment with the stages.

While it might feel broken for competitive players, one of the reasons why Danger Zone, a stage from the original Dead or Alive with explosive traps, was added was to appeal to casual players. "I think we learned is one of the things we wanted to do better is we’ve focused on giving competitive players. Making sure it’s balanced not just for players in the East, but players in the West. That was one of our biggest focuses in the last couple of years," Lee answered when I asked how Dead or Alive 5 evolved from from 2012 to now. "With Last Round, one of the things we wanted to do is not lose focus of our casual audience as well. When it comes to game balance and even the presentation of the stages we wanted to reel back and make the experience enjoyable for casual fans."

This is exactly what I wanted hear, glad to get the confirmation that TN realized it! Hoping that the focus on such balancement between competitive and casual will continue to be even in future

Team Ninja definitely wants to see more villains in the line up

I like this

"We want to maintain that DOA has an easy point of entry for beginners. We want it to be an intuitive sort of experience instead of learning the move list for 30 different characters or whatnot. They can come in the beginning and button mash their way through, not only having success but looking good while you’re doing it. We want people to have a great time whether they understand a character or not. In mastering it, they will learn in trial and error," Lee elaborated.

This seems to me not only an answer related to the recent TN's tutorials, but even an indirect response to Itagaki's interview with Emperor. By the way could be just a coincidence.

 

I am just really annoyed with the Honoka bashing. Like if you don't like her at , but god damn. He acts as if her very existence is taking oxygen away from him.

The only "cutesy" girls in this game is Honoka and Marie Rose while they are plenty more macho macho male characters in the game. We barely know much about the character, give her a chance. And its not like she is just some schoolgirl who just said "I want to fight, I'll skip school today" out of the blue. She has a curse that when she watch other fighters fight, she gains their abilities into her own fighting style. And with the possibility of her being related to Raidou along with her having powers, who knows how threatening she may actually be? Shoot Ingrid from Street Fighter appears as a young girl with a schoolgirl-esque outfit and she is the most powerful character in SF. Who is to say Honoka isn't pretty much the Ingrid of DOA (without being a goddess)?

Majority of fighting games have cute schoolgirls in them with just as moe girls in them. Shoot Sakura is one of the most iconic female characters in fighting games and video games in general and she is a schoolgirl who wears a schoolgirl outfit. Athena wears a school uniform and is a moe girl and she is a good fighter and is quite powerful as well.

I mean at least get to know the character before bashing her so much. She can appear to be way more then just what she appears as, and many characters like her have proved that.

And this guy works for TN? Lol way to be professional huh? And he clearly knows very little about DOA if he thinks Rig is a wrestler lol.

If you want more macho macho manly men like Raidou (which damn there evey fighting game is full of) then just say so, no need to drag Honoka or other female characters down to say that at all. But hey I guess he could have said it worse (like certain people here do) so thats pretty good then huh?

That's right, many will complain about Honoka's cutsiness, (myself sort of included xD) but who knows? She might actually have a great role in story mode.

 

I am just really annoyed with the Honoka bashing. Like if you don't like her at , but god damn. He acts as if her very existence is taking oxygen away from him.

The only "cutesy" girls in this game is Honoka and Marie Rose while they are plenty more macho macho male characters in the game. We barely know much about the character, give her a chance. And its not like she is just some schoolgirl who just said "I want to fight, I'll skip school today" out of the blue. She has a curse that when she watch other fighters fight, she gains their abilities into her own fighting style. And with the possibility of her being related to Raidou along with her having powers, who knows how threatening she may actually be? Shoot Ingrid from Street Fighter appears as a young girl with a schoolgirl-esque outfit and she is the most powerful character in SF. Who is to say Honoka isn't pretty much the Ingrid of DOA (without being a goddess)?

Majority of fighting games have cute schoolgirls in them with just as moe girls in them. Shoot Sakura is one of the most iconic female characters in fighting games and video games in general and she is a schoolgirl who wears a schoolgirl outfit. Athena wears a school uniform and is a moe girl and she is a good fighter and is quite powerful as well.

I mean at least get to know the character before bashing her so much. She can appear to be way more then just what she appears as, and many characters like her have proved that.

And this guy works for TN? Lol way to be professional huh? And he clearly knows very little about DOA if he thinks Rig is a wrestler lol.

If you want more macho macho manly men like Raidou (which damn there evey fighting game is full of) then just say so, no need to drag Honoka or other female characters down to say that at all. But hey I guess he could have said it worse (like certain people here do) so thats pretty good then huh?

well not really. Leifang, Hitomi, and Mila all had their initial characterizations dropped to be turned into generic "cutesy" girls, as well.

Honoka gets bashed, because she's the culmination with everything wrong with DOA character design. She's literally all complaints incarnate.

Also how the fuck is that a curse

 

'Merica likes the rugged males that look like Navy Seals and Japan prefers the cute girls/bishe characters so nothing new was learned here. It was no great secret why they give more special attention to the ladies. Nice to know there is still talk for more expansion besides costumes.

 

What did we learn that we didn't already know? Everyone saw the DLC coming and they hinted at it earlier. It's a smart move for the business, and it's a formula that has made Team NINJA money outside of retail discs and game downloads.

Now I hope that the DLC pushes it to the next level. One stage for a big patch is kind of lackluster. I want a selection of old school stages... and some freaking new ones. Say what you want about DOA's current stage design, but they are still better than 90% of other fighting game stages.

 

Western people prefers cool male grapplers, Japanese people prefers cute female characters. Team NINJA will try to find a balance in this even if the numbers can't be ignored and so, if at the end of the day the majority of the players like the second category, surely we will see more examples from it. I can't see where is the problem, they are saying that they aren't ignoring the fanabase and that they are trying to appeal everyone in the ways that they can: of course the facts will be another matter that need to be proved, but so far their intentions are the best that someone could wish imo.

And no one is taking down Honoka: Raidou and her are - and will continue to be - inevitably put in comparison between them because they are the new additions of Last Round and the focus of everyone when TN talk about new characters is on them. So, if TN say that for DoA5LR tried to be more focused on the requests of the fanbase, inevitably everyone will think about Raidou and Honoka and if really they prove what they say. With this interview Tom Lee is saying that the dicothomy of the two characters, a grappler male and a young schoolgirl, is not casual but the outcome of an attempt to appeal the different wishes (not everything, of course) of the Western and Eastern fanbase: request for an old character of the series, for a schoolgirl, for a ninja, for a sexy female, for an old boss, for a moe character, for a grappler, for a villain, etc....

 

Western people prefers cool male grapplers, Japanese people prefers cute female characters. Team NINJA will try to find a balance in this,

So a cute girl with muscles with that of Bayman or Leon? xD

 

I still think Captain Falcon would be a great addition to DOA.

 

I am just really annoyed with the Honoka bashing. Like if you don't like her at , but god damn. He acts as if her very existence is taking oxygen away from him.

The only "cutesy" girls in this game is Honoka and Marie Rose while they are plenty more macho macho male characters in the game. We barely know much about the character, give her a chance. And its not like she is just some schoolgirl who just said "I want to fight, I'll skip school today" out of the blue. She has a curse that when she watch other fighters fight, she gains their abilities into her own fighting style. And with the possibility of her being related to Raidou along with her having powers, who knows how threatening she may actually be? Shoot Ingrid from Street Fighter appears as a young girl with a schoolgirl-esque outfit and she is the most powerful character in SF. Who is to say Honoka isn't pretty much the Ingrid of DOA (without being a goddess)?

Majority of fighting games have cute schoolgirls in them with just as moe girls in them. Shoot Sakura is one of the most iconic female characters in fighting games and video games in general and she is a schoolgirl who wears a schoolgirl outfit. Athena wears a school uniform and is a moe girl and she is a good fighter and is quite powerful as well.

I mean at least get to know the character before bashing her so much. She can appear to be way more then just what she appears as, and many characters like her have proved that.

And this guy works for TN? Lol way to be professional huh? And he clearly knows very little about DOA if he thinks Rig is a wrestler lol.

you are my hero.

If you want more macho macho manly men like Raidou (which damn there evey fighting game is full of) then just say so, no need to drag Honoka or other female characters down to say that at all. But hey I guess he could have said it worse (like certain people here do) so thats pretty good then huh?

You are my hero!

 

So a cute girl with muscles with that of Bayman or Leon? xD

So what Tina and Rachel are really supposed to be? *cough*Nicole*cough*

 

i swear to god if people start up that that "western players are xenophones who only like manly shit" again im going to lose my cool.

this is not about east vs west its about good vs bad design and if she had a good move set to begin with no one would have cared.

 

i swear to god if people start up that that "western players are xenophones who only like manly shit" again im going to lose my cool.

I didn't mean anything similar, I was using such terms for talking more easily through generalizations just as I think even Tom Lee did in his interview. It's anyway true that usually there is a sort of distinction between the two regions, not all the kind of characters are equally popular everywhere (and of course all depends even from the kind of work taken in consideration).

 

The east loves sexy girls. The west loves big sweaty guys.

At least...it certainly sounds like it each time a female fighter is announced.
Ha