Django
Member
other chars have that kick thats like 6H+K aren't even GB and they are safe (ie. hitomi)... but not tina's.
DOA5U Tina's nerfs, buffs and QA in DOA5U
- Thread starter TRI Mike
- Start date
other chars have that kick thats like 6H+K aren't even GB and they are safe (ie. hitomi)... but not tina's.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
One thing that makes me feel better. Milas 3H+K is now unsafe. Also another thing technically Tina shouldn't lose to Brad. A lot of his stance transitions are -5 just the right amount to punish him. Even those pesky BT 2P+K transitions are -5. Still those changes to her though.
It was best when d3v was saying it in regard to Rachel's stomp. Then it got nerfed, and he refused to adapt.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
I feel that the whole "adapt" argument is like accepting we have to deal with shitty decisions on TN's part and learn how to play no matter what they do to our characters.
I've said it time and again, Tina was much better in vanilla and the reasons are logical and clearly stated in the beginning of the thread. I'm not necesarilly asking for insane buffs (though they'd be welcome). I'd just like to see every nerf reverted back to vanilla status. Her players lost too many things and gained close to nothing with a character that wasn't even OP to begin with.
I've said it time and again, Tina was much better in vanilla and the reasons are logical and clearly stated in the beginning of the thread. I'm not necesarilly asking for insane buffs (though they'd be welcome). I'd just like to see every nerf reverted back to vanilla status. Her players lost too many things and gained close to nothing with a character that wasn't even OP to begin with.
-Adapting doesn't always mean accepting bad Gameplay decisions. It often times mean finding creative ways to use the character. I remember in 3.1 always getting caught by one of Mr. Wah's bass ground throw setups. It seemed pretty much like it was guaranteed. Out of frustration I did Tina's tackle. It not only escaped the ground throw, it left Tina at frame advantage. So adapting like that changes a players out come.
As a frequent Tina user, I agree with this. When I played with Tina in vanilla, she was WAY better. In Ultimate, I can definitely see the changes they made to her. Like you previously stated, Tina wasn't that OP as far as grappler characters go.
RubinRoon
Member
We have to face the fact that, after looking at the whole picture, she was nerfed. Why/If that was necessary I dont know, honestly. I understand some nervs like 6 h+k (which made 2 p+k>k superfluous), but i do not understand why for example k>k>6h+k isnt guaranteed anymore.
Anyway, what annoys me the most are her guardbreaks, or most of them, for example her running p+k. Why does it only give frameadvantege at tiprange? Why does it seem so inconsistent? Why does 4 p+k seem almost useless now (only frameadvantage at tiprange, no guaranteed groundgrab, besides tiprange) ? It wasnt overpowered by any means.
Lastly why is her p+k unsafe? It is slow, guarantees f-all and has less range than lisa`s p+k, which gives a guardbreak and a ton of frameadvantage (and rightfully so, as far as Im concerned, since its slow etc).
She has quite a lot of useless moves (236p is the best example) and that is what upsets me the most.
Anyway, what annoys me the most are her guardbreaks, or most of them, for example her running p+k. Why does it only give frameadvantege at tiprange? Why does it seem so inconsistent? Why does 4 p+k seem almost useless now (only frameadvantage at tiprange, no guaranteed groundgrab, besides tiprange) ? It wasnt overpowered by any means.
Lastly why is her p+k unsafe? It is slow, guarantees f-all and has less range than lisa`s p+k, which gives a guardbreak and a ton of frameadvantage (and rightfully so, as far as Im concerned, since its slow etc).
She has quite a lot of useless moves (236p is the best example) and that is what upsets me the most.
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TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
It's just that TN seems to look at things differently from the western players. Maybe they just want her to suck or rely on the opponent holding like a retard to Hi-counter Throw them. I dunno. The truth is that Tina was heavily nerfed in Ultimate and I don't like it at all.
She can win, yes. But it's extremely important for the opponent to make dumb mistakes for her to take advantage of them. In Ultimate it's harder to guarantee attacks, and using her strikes seems to be less rewarding. It pisses me off because she has so much potential and the vanilla version was fantastic and sadly, never exploited to her maximum level.
She can win, yes. But it's extremely important for the opponent to make dumb mistakes for her to take advantage of them. In Ultimate it's harder to guarantee attacks, and using her strikes seems to be less rewarding. It pisses me off because she has so much potential and the vanilla version was fantastic and sadly, never exploited to her maximum level.
Doa_Eater
Well-Known Member
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kouhatsu
A stream with a Doa arcade Tina player(not that good but who am i too judge) vs a Momiji player (which somehow plays the same way every player that picks her plays)
For those that will miss it in short from what i can see she does not get de nerfed (lol) like 6k+h guard break or kk into 6k+h giving the old ground throw follow up.
A stream with a Doa arcade Tina player(not that good but who am i too judge) vs a Momiji player (which somehow plays the same way every player that picks her plays)
For those that will miss it in short from what i can see she does not get de nerfed (lol) like 6k+h guard break or kk into 6k+h giving the old ground throw follow up.
Doa_Eater
Well-Known Member
Have u seen the guard break numbers on Lisa's moonsault and then on Tina's moonsault? I mean Lisa is just a completely braindead version of Tina but hooooooly shit!
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Koompbala
Well-Known Member
That tip range stuff your talking about is how frame data works in general. Things are safer at a range but then moves also are usually a frame slower or so at a range. That also translates to frame traps granting more advantage at a distance. Tinas 66P+K being like that Im okay with. Its her 236K and her 236P that needs fixing. Why is it that Ive seen that 236K get hit by lows but also be ducked. Why can the opponent tech sooner than she can recover when she lands the move. As her 236P which I explained in my vanilla guide. Why is it that move is the same as Bass' but yet he gets 0 on block and she gets punished. Its the same speed as his but hers does 1 more point of dmg big deal.
Thats how it was in vanilla I just checked it they brought it down to 35dmg now it clashes with Bass' 66P+K stupid. Im glad 2P+KK is safe it should be different from her 6H+K. Since you have to roll just to do it. I dont agree with 6H+K change though not at all. Why is her running grab negative when the opponent techs. Why is that shit -15 even though its not worth anything why is her 6T negative on tech too. Why do 6T2T and 6T44T do the same dmg?
I agree completely with her P+K. Also her Moonsault too that should be untechable again. I'll never understand why her 2P got nerfed
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
I completely stopped using 8P with her. People escape and hold it too much now. There's also an issue with one of my favorite CB set-ups. In closed stance 
(back-turned stun), (back-turned SDS), CB!. Now that combo is VERY inconsistent, it lands sometimes, and other times the 6P+K just whiffs. I dunno.
(back-turned stun), (back-turned SDS), CB!. Now that combo is VERY inconsistent, it lands sometimes, and other times the 6P+K just whiffs. I dunno.
Doa_Eater
Well-Known Member
I completely stopped using 8P with her. People escape and hold it too much now. There's also an issue with one of my favorite CB set-ups. In closed stance
I think it just hits lightweights now for some reason.