Balance 240 vs 300 life

[virtuaPAI]

To be fair, most other 3d fighters don't have an inescapable grab that can take out 150+ health.

If it seems like a lot of my hesitation for 240 health is a result of Alpha's stupidity, that's because it is. Unless they re-work some character-specific details, I'm advocating 270 for now. With revisions, 240 would also be welcome.

-In the same breath, with the exclusion of DOA, and only DOA, most other 3d fighters have an equivalent Attack punishment of 150+ health. Oranges and Apples = High punishment lol.

I was actually about to suggest Small (270) for SoCal DOA's Saturday's tournament because 300 really does allow for sloppy play and one additional set up more than it should to take rounds and matches.

-Too many players are coming to the same conclusion. Something must be done!

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I was actually about to suggest Small (270) for SoCal DOA's Saturday's tournament because 300 really does allow for sloppy play and one additional set up more than it should to take rounds and matches.

I partially think the issue may be that 5U's terrible oki exacerbates the game's overly high health bar. There's nothing more aggravating than getting your opponent down to a smidgen of health after a large setup then they K.O. you with a wake-up kick or some stupid shit. It's not a problem in other 3D fighters.

I played in 240 HP this past week and it was amazing. From a damage standpoint it just felt right because everything, even the smallest combos, felt significant and made a difference. Starting next week, I'm going to advocate using 240 HP for 5U at my scene.

 

[RoboJoe]

I partially think the issue may be that 5U's terrible oki exacerbates the game's overly high health bar. There's nothing more aggravating than getting your opponent down to a smidgen of health after a large setup then they K.O. you with a wake-up kick or some stupid shit. It's not a problem in other 3D fighters.

I played in 240 HP this past week and it was amazing. From a damage standpoint it just felt right because everything, even the smallest combos, felt significant and made a difference. Starting next week, I'm going to advocate using 240 HP for 5U at my scene.

I'm glad I've got allies in my crusade for 240. I thought I was going to have to convince everyone next week to try it. I say: more rounds; less life be the new motto.

Best thing about 240 life is that walls feel like Danger zones again, just like the old games. I can take approximately 85 life with a fast wall splat and upwards of 140 with my slowest wall splat and an explosive wall on NH. This kind of damage will cause people to finally take walls seriously again and actually position themselves properly and have awareness of their surroundings. Do or die situations like this are what causes people to adapt and get better and this game needs more of them.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I made a topic in the Competitive DOA group and Offline Competitive DOA group about it. The only player who commented so far was Lopedo with a simple "No". I highly doubt it'll go well in either group, just because it's Facebok.

Whether anyone speaks up or not, I think I'm going to push for 270 out here in SoCal. Just played a few with the A.I. (just to test both settings, 5 matches a piece) and both 240 and 270 feel good. I'm for either preference since I don't mind either of them.

 

[Awesmic]

I made a topic in the Competitive DOA group and Offline Competitive DOA group about it. The only player who commented so far was Lopedo with a simple "No". I highly doubt it'll go well in either group, just because it's Facebok.

Whether anyone speaks up or not, I think I'm going to push for 270 out here in SoCal. Just played a few with the A.I. (just to test both settings, 5 matches a piece) and both 240 and 270 feel good. I'm for either preference since I don't mind either of them.

I really wish there was an option for 250 health, but since there isn't I'm going for 240.

 

[Berzerk!]

I've long been an advocate of a smaller life setting. 270 was an acceptable compromise in 5.
240 would still be best.

That may warrant a commensurate adjustment in hold and some throw damage, but the key here is that strikes are not scary, walls are not scary, playing sloppy doesn't matter too much, and when playing efficiently, it takes an too many setups to kill your opponent.

As others have noted, other 3D fighters, particularly VF, have lower life and higher consequence to mistakes. Poking and small combos are more meaningful. I'd like to see them tighten up some of the other defensive abilities to round out the system - make sidestep and movement more consistent, to make people work for those more-powerful strikes to connect.

 

[Tenryuga]

I personally don't want to see throw damage reduced. I like the idea of someone losing 20% or more because they thought it was ok to be stupid. With the current grab damage and the lower life value no one can say punishment in DOA doesn't hurt. The current damage strikers get from a hi counter grab is good on 270 and lovely on 240. Grappler's will be even more threatening because one wrong hold is half life or close to it gone. That will really make holds against them more of a read and less than a pray and hope kind of thing.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Lower life, 240 or 270, will have to make players try to read opponents more often than just randomly holding out of stun. Low holding out of stun gets punished hard now because of the increased recovery when you low hold out of critical stun.

If players decide to randomly hold or be unsafe so often, then you will be rewarded promptly for punishing them. I still have plenty of players in my area that continue to low hold out of stun a lot, and I'm throwing them for free. They never learn their lesson because they don't pay attention to the consequences until their health bar is about 35% or less.

Most players are like this because they are spoiled off the increased health bar and don't realize their sloppy play is actually sloppy.

 

[TakedaZX]

Another issue is the drop of guaranteed damage, gravity increases, and general strike damage in certain areas.

Example: Hayate (since I know him best). Hayate lost 3PP, 33K as a guaranteed set up. This set up opened up for a big chunk of life guaranteed. He no longer has that luxury. On top of that, even if he does land 3PP, 33K from the opponent not slow escaping enough, he can't get 4P6P+K~K, bt 7K off of mid weights anymore and THEN if you thought that wasn't enough, he's got a damage decrease on wind dash K (Vanilla = 25+20, 5U = 20+16) meaning a 4 point drop on NH.

But then TN wants the hold damage increased and the health increased along side it. The worst thing though is that Hayate didn't get the worst of it. His stun to launch is still better than most and his max threshold juggles are solid.

@Ten, if anything they should go back to square one. 240 health and base the hold damage off of that. It should be significant on raw holds but in stun holds should still take a damage and recovery penalty, then we can move forward from there.

@SweetRevenge117 I've been out of the loop so, what is Gen-Fu getting that you think is so threatening? A house combo can be matched, especially if it consist of multiple guesses. What else is there?

 

[Zeo]

Pretty sure a well placed scramble electric DZ combo or tiger DZ combo on the show with Jacky can insta-kill you on smaller health. The lower health would definitely effect matchups as well. Forcing you to actually learn them, to be specific.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

@SweetRevenge117 I've been out of the loop so, what is Gen-Fu getting that you think is so threatening? A house combo can be matched, especially if it consist of multiple guesses. What else is there?

Genfu doesn't need to be on the Home stage to dish out the raw damage Sweet Revenge is referring to. Neither does Ayane, for that matter. Trust us on this one.

 

[TakedaZX]

Genfu doesn't need to be on the Home stage to dish out the raw damage Sweet Revenge is referring to. Neither does Ayane, for that matter. Trust us on this one.

I can trust you. I saw your video, but it's no mystery that Ayane can get damage for days off of anything

My question though is what is genfu doing? I want numbers and inputs.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I can trust you. I saw your video, but it's no mystery that Ayane can get damage for days off of anything

My question though is what is genfu doing? I want numbers and inputs.

Ask Sweet Revenge, I won't share the Genfu tech without permission, since it's technically his stuff.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

made an online lobby with health set to 240 and during that brief half hour of dominating with Leon to the point of causing rage quits, hatemail, complaints, and constant dojo stage selecting i have come to the conclusion that YES, 240 health is the shit.

heres one of the matches showcasing what Leon is capable with it

He already has high damage output with the usual desert falcons, dervish throws, etc but with 240 health his minor damage attacks like his ground grabs, charged 2H+K, 2KK etc went from mere annoyances to being actual threats forcing opponents to be on point with their defense and chain throw breaks

 

[Prince Adon]

I think it's best kept at default. Unless there are balance issues tweaked out to make the small life bars work I don't see that right now. The game already has balance issues and such that changing the life bar can do no more than most likely make it worse. It will definitely help some characters more than others. Forcing players to think more wisely doesn't mean it'll make the game better balanced. Players are still learning, and not enough people are playing offline enough as it is.

 

[StrikerSashi]

It's exactly because people are learning that I support a lower life setting. It's easy to play poorly if there isn't an obvious huge penalty for doing so. Play at 240 and stupid decision means you lose. Forcing players to play smarter is more important to me than playing the game TN wants the game played.

 

[virtuaPAI]

It's exactly because people are learning that I support a lower life setting. It's easy to play poorly if there isn't an obvious huge penalty for doing so. Play at 240 and stupid decision means you lose. Forcing players to play smarter is more important to me than playing the game TN wants the game played.

-Exactly. This is what we all have been saying. 240 actually makes DOA5U technical fighter...No lie, it feels like I am forced to playing on VF type levels of precision.

 

[TakedaZX]

I hope that "7PK, 7PK" situation where Fork held her isn't the actual in stun hold damage. We don't need any of that shit... 4 guesses should definitely be more significant than one counter hold in stun especially.

 

[Kronin]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that what push Team Ninja to keep in the game a determined amount of life in proportion to the average damage it's theTag mode. I think that the return of the old settings together with the high guaranteed damage in Tag, would make the Tag fights basically not existing between people that know how to use damaging combo.

I know that the offline scene play basically only single matches, but exactly like Team Ninja want that the game is played competitively, at the same time is evident the amount of resources that they spended around the Tag mode with this new game, and surely they don't want make useless no one of these two efforts.

(I hope to not have said silly things)

 

[Tenryuga]

made an online lobby with health set to 240 and during that brief half hour of dominating with Leon to the point of causing rage quits, hatemail, complaints, and constant dojo stage selecting i have come to the conclusion that YES, 240 health is the shit.

heres one of the matches showcasing what Leon is capable with it

He already has high damage output with the usual desert falcons, dervish throws, etc but with 240 health his minor damage attacks like his ground grabs, charged 2H+K, 2KK etc went from mere annoyances to being actual threats forcing opponents to be on point with their defense and chain throw breaks

The strike damage on that setting is beautiful. The hold damage isn't so we should get TN to reduce the hold damage.