Belinea
Active Member
So at this point it has been pretty much concluded that Eliot is one of the worst characters in the game. With that said, how would you go about improving him? Here are some of my suggestions, starting with changes I feel are both reasonable and easy to implement, to the more elaborate and crazy stuff.
Make and its variations safe on hit.
I think it pretty unfair in general to be punished for actually hitting your opponent, but when you factor in the damage difference of the versus a low throw, this move becomes not only useless in higher play, but extremely risky to use in any situation.
Revert back to being a 2-in-1 NH launcher
In DOA4 this move was a 2-in-1, but its effectiveness was seriously limited due to the fact that the would usually catch the opponent on counter hit. Regardless though, it was a tool Eliot once had that was taken away from him. In DOA5 however, being a 2-in-1 would be a huge boost to him, as it would give him a guaranteed launcher (or wall spat) after his parry. This would not only give him a new tool in general, and make his parry that much more effective, but it also reduces the amount of time TN has to wrestle over making the parry useful and how much frame advantage it needs (something they’ve obviously had trouble with before). This way TN wouldn’t even need to change the parry at all.
Make 13 (or even 12) frames
I’ve talked about it on this forum several times before about how Eliot’s fastest mid is actually his 14 frame . is 13 frames, but requires buffering, which also means he can’t do it when being pressured. Making his faster would go along way to helping him deal with rushdown characters and other such situations.
→ Or alternatively, move to , and move to
Relocating to would remove the need for it to be buffered, and give him access to a 13 frame mid at anytime (like most of the other characters). The current is already a kick, so it would fit naturally with its new command.
Allow to track
Currently () is his only mid tracking move, which takes 35 frames to come out. To give an example of how bad that is, Bayman can tank-roll around the and then block or hold the kick. being a tracking move would help him a considerable amount, and allow him to deal with characters that can abuse his almost entirely, non-tracking moveset. As a side note () tracking makes no sense anyway, as the is a straight back kick, while the actually has a circular movement.
Turn into a 2-in-1
After a fully charged + is blocked becomes guaranteed, while also dropping the number of hits needed to CB from 4 to 3. This change would give him the ability to CB in 1 hit, much like Gen Fu can do with into + CB. At 87 frames, this move is extremely risky to throw out anyway, but at least this way it would have a huge purpose to his game, and really make the opponent fear the +/ + mixup. Also, unlike Gen Fu, this set-up would not work after a blocked powerblow.
Allow him to cancel +
87 frames is a long time for a move to come out. This change goes hand-in-hand with the one above, in that it would give + purpose to his game, and really make the opponent fear the +/ + mixup.
Make safe on block
Not essential I admit, but it rubs me the wrong way that an opponent can still throw punish him even after he guard breaks them. Unsafe guard breaks are just silly in my opinion.
Allow him to become back-turned without using an attack.
Eliot’s highest launcher is his back-turned , and it’s almost sickening to know that when you CB your opponent it is impossible to use this launcher, seeing as there is no way for him to simply turn around without attacking. Not an essential change, but damn it would be nice.
Allow + to crush like it did in DOA4
In DOA4 this might have seriously have been Eliot’s best move, and that’s because it allowed him to get out of situations his moveset simply was not capable of dealing with. It used to avoid highs, throws and OH’s, as well as mid attacks on occasion. In DOA5 however, Eliot has huge difficulty crushing anything, and can even get hit with OH’s if he attempts this move. Bringing back its crushing ability would help to round out Eliot’s moveset, and make him that much more complete as a character,
Increase the frame advantage of his parry from +16 to +19
There was a lot of hype surrounding Eliot in the pre-launch DOA5, and specifically his ability to launch from parry, which was something I honestly never thought was necessary. +19 doesn’t guarantee a launcher (although I might be overlooking something), but it will guarantee + after a successful kick parry – which leads into a whole bunch of shenanigans. It would also guarantee wall splats as well. This suggestion, coupled with the one about making a 2-in-1 would make Eliot an absolute beast.
Change into a sidestep move (ala Gen Fu's SS p+k)
has always been a pseudo (and unintentional) sidestep attack. For a very brief point in the animation Eliot will step off-axis momentarily before realigning himself. Timed right it allows him to both attack with a move that out prioritises even Jann Lee’s dragon kick, while also stepping out of alignment. The problem though is that the sidestep portion of the attack is way too minimal, and it’s definitely not something you can just throw out. Making it a full-on sidestep attack would be great for him, and just in general make him less of a sitting duck against faster characters.
Revert back to being safe
I understand why TN made it unsafe, seeing as they probably didn’t want someone to abuse a move that causes a sitdown stun. The problem with this though is that fact that the cons vastly outweigh the pros- seeing as the is unsafe if free cancelled, it only has one follow-up (the ), getting hit with the alone will not cause a sitdown stun, and that the sitdown stun practically guarantees nothing away. He was mostly unsafe in DOA4, so having a move like this being safe helped him out a great deal, as it would in DOA5. Also, I’m generally just annoyed they made it unsafe in the first place, especially when he was already so unsafe to begin with. Bad call TN.
Make safe (and generally faster)
Another suggestion that, while not essential, I feel would benefit him greatly. Eliot’s playstyle is that of a ‘spear’ – in that, from half or full screen away he can suddenly enter in on you with moves like , +, +, etc. However, seeing as characters move forward much faster than backwards, if someone wants to rush him down, Eliot’s ‘spear’ game never gets the chance to start. Therefore, making safe would give him an option to get to a safe distance to play the game his way. And I know this is totally unrealistic, but they could make it cause a sitdown stun (like Pai's +) as opposed to a launcher (which is useless in single player anyway), and then maybe have something like + be guaranteed to really highlight the fact that Eliot can dart about the stage at will.
Allow him to do a follow up juggle after
can be held either by a high or mid kick hold, making it riskier to do than his other launchers. And while I appreciate that it’s a neutral hit launcher, actually launching someone on NH with it doesn’t allow you to follow up with anything other than the . Again not essential, but TN could really turn this into a great move if they wanted. I redact this point, as I had not done the proper testing, and am incorrect.
Make and its variations safe on hit.
I think it pretty unfair in general to be punished for actually hitting your opponent, but when you factor in the damage difference of the versus a low throw, this move becomes not only useless in higher play, but extremely risky to use in any situation.
Revert back to being a 2-in-1 NH launcher
In DOA4 this move was a 2-in-1, but its effectiveness was seriously limited due to the fact that the would usually catch the opponent on counter hit. Regardless though, it was a tool Eliot once had that was taken away from him. In DOA5 however, being a 2-in-1 would be a huge boost to him, as it would give him a guaranteed launcher (or wall spat) after his parry. This would not only give him a new tool in general, and make his parry that much more effective, but it also reduces the amount of time TN has to wrestle over making the parry useful and how much frame advantage it needs (something they’ve obviously had trouble with before). This way TN wouldn’t even need to change the parry at all.
Make 13 (or even 12) frames
I’ve talked about it on this forum several times before about how Eliot’s fastest mid is actually his 14 frame . is 13 frames, but requires buffering, which also means he can’t do it when being pressured. Making his faster would go along way to helping him deal with rushdown characters and other such situations.
→ Or alternatively, move to , and move to
Relocating to would remove the need for it to be buffered, and give him access to a 13 frame mid at anytime (like most of the other characters). The current is already a kick, so it would fit naturally with its new command.
Allow to track
Currently () is his only mid tracking move, which takes 35 frames to come out. To give an example of how bad that is, Bayman can tank-roll around the and then block or hold the kick. being a tracking move would help him a considerable amount, and allow him to deal with characters that can abuse his almost entirely, non-tracking moveset. As a side note () tracking makes no sense anyway, as the is a straight back kick, while the actually has a circular movement.
Turn into a 2-in-1
After a fully charged + is blocked becomes guaranteed, while also dropping the number of hits needed to CB from 4 to 3. This change would give him the ability to CB in 1 hit, much like Gen Fu can do with into + CB. At 87 frames, this move is extremely risky to throw out anyway, but at least this way it would have a huge purpose to his game, and really make the opponent fear the +/ + mixup. Also, unlike Gen Fu, this set-up would not work after a blocked powerblow.
Allow him to cancel +
87 frames is a long time for a move to come out. This change goes hand-in-hand with the one above, in that it would give + purpose to his game, and really make the opponent fear the +/ + mixup.
Make safe on block
Not essential I admit, but it rubs me the wrong way that an opponent can still throw punish him even after he guard breaks them. Unsafe guard breaks are just silly in my opinion.
Allow him to become back-turned without using an attack.
Eliot’s highest launcher is his back-turned , and it’s almost sickening to know that when you CB your opponent it is impossible to use this launcher, seeing as there is no way for him to simply turn around without attacking. Not an essential change, but damn it would be nice.
Allow + to crush like it did in DOA4
In DOA4 this might have seriously have been Eliot’s best move, and that’s because it allowed him to get out of situations his moveset simply was not capable of dealing with. It used to avoid highs, throws and OH’s, as well as mid attacks on occasion. In DOA5 however, Eliot has huge difficulty crushing anything, and can even get hit with OH’s if he attempts this move. Bringing back its crushing ability would help to round out Eliot’s moveset, and make him that much more complete as a character,
Increase the frame advantage of his parry from +16 to +19
There was a lot of hype surrounding Eliot in the pre-launch DOA5, and specifically his ability to launch from parry, which was something I honestly never thought was necessary. +19 doesn’t guarantee a launcher (although I might be overlooking something), but it will guarantee + after a successful kick parry – which leads into a whole bunch of shenanigans. It would also guarantee wall splats as well. This suggestion, coupled with the one about making a 2-in-1 would make Eliot an absolute beast.
Change into a sidestep move (ala Gen Fu's SS p+k)
has always been a pseudo (and unintentional) sidestep attack. For a very brief point in the animation Eliot will step off-axis momentarily before realigning himself. Timed right it allows him to both attack with a move that out prioritises even Jann Lee’s dragon kick, while also stepping out of alignment. The problem though is that the sidestep portion of the attack is way too minimal, and it’s definitely not something you can just throw out. Making it a full-on sidestep attack would be great for him, and just in general make him less of a sitting duck against faster characters.
Revert back to being safe
I understand why TN made it unsafe, seeing as they probably didn’t want someone to abuse a move that causes a sitdown stun. The problem with this though is that fact that the cons vastly outweigh the pros- seeing as the is unsafe if free cancelled, it only has one follow-up (the ), getting hit with the alone will not cause a sitdown stun, and that the sitdown stun practically guarantees nothing away. He was mostly unsafe in DOA4, so having a move like this being safe helped him out a great deal, as it would in DOA5. Also, I’m generally just annoyed they made it unsafe in the first place, especially when he was already so unsafe to begin with. Bad call TN.
Make safe (and generally faster)
Another suggestion that, while not essential, I feel would benefit him greatly. Eliot’s playstyle is that of a ‘spear’ – in that, from half or full screen away he can suddenly enter in on you with moves like , +, +, etc. However, seeing as characters move forward much faster than backwards, if someone wants to rush him down, Eliot’s ‘spear’ game never gets the chance to start. Therefore, making safe would give him an option to get to a safe distance to play the game his way. And I know this is totally unrealistic, but they could make it cause a sitdown stun (like Pai's +) as opposed to a launcher (which is useless in single player anyway), and then maybe have something like + be guaranteed to really highlight the fact that Eliot can dart about the stage at will.