Competitive balance: DOA5U mechanics changes
- Thread starter Berzerk!
- Start date
I was considering maining her at a time, and have seriously considered using her as my secondary many times. Ultimately I never have, however, for precisely that reason. If I put a bit more time into her she would definitely be my best, she's very fun to use and looks quite cool, but in the end it's hard to FEEL cool when everyone and their third uncle uses her (Kasumi is in a similar boat).Which sucks, because all but one of my locals use Ayane. It makes for some boring practice I tells ya. Some have expressed dropping Ayane just for the sheer fact everyone else is using her.
There didn't used to be a ton of Ryus, but I'm worried about an influx of noobie Ryus with Ultimate. Not trying to sound high and mighty because in some ways I'm still a "noob," but at least I try to learn the game instead of teleport spamming all day. Now being a "core fighter" I feel like some of his persona will die out. He won't feel threatening, but rather just a headache.
Seriously considering Leon or Lisa as my main, and that kinda brings me back to topic. It really seems like Ein and Leon are just copy/pasted from their DOA4 versions. Not only would that be lame and lazy considering all the attention the others are getting (even some returning ones like Kasumi), but I don't feel that their old skills will hold up with their peers in DOA5. For example, Leon is known for being a power-house. His most damaging throw is a 4-part escapable combo throw comparable in damage to the shooting star press, and to top it off, the final input is a semi-circle T which gives the defender an advantage they don't usually get with most escapable combo throws. Additionally, I haven't seen him use any new string alterations, and all that "New fighting style learned in the desert" seems to be total BS. I hope I am sorely wrong, but as it stands, it seems like TN really isn't putting any effort into them at all.
DontForkWitMe
Well-Known Member
The last input for his dervish throw can be buffered during the 3rd part so all you need to do is buffer the half circle early and just press H+P during the last "combo throw" message. DOA5 allowing inescapable combo throws through JF input means Leon can get them all guaranteed if you're onpoint with the timing.
As for him and ein being copy and paste jobs i too worry since so far nothing new has been shown for ein other than his PB while Leon's only new thing shown so far other than his PB is a new ground bounce throw, he still seems to have inferior versions of baymans hand-me-down strikes. even his air throw doesn't look so hot anymore since rachel's ground bounces allowing her to combo from it. Its still to early to say since TN specifically mentions him getting a bunch of new stuff and even went as far as to officially change his fighting style to cqc so hopefully they weren't full of shit.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
well Ft are gone so anything is possible.
Zeo
Well-Known Member
GOD no.
With reference to the actual topic, here's my thoughts on a few things:
Life Settings: I like the 270 HP setting. 240HP is ok-ish too but some more powerful moves and throws/OH would need to be tweaked. 300 HP is too high plain and simple. You don't get as much damage reward for your combos or moves, and higher life = more sloppy and scrubby play leading to boring matches.
Guaranteed Damage: If I'd have a choice, I'd leave the SE glitch in to allow for more combo setups but I would like there to be more unholdable stuns overall. I agree that Advanced Holds and Parries should not be allowed from stun (i.e. Critical Holds).
Stun Threshold: I would probably reduce the critical stun max by a smidgen to allow for one less guess before going for a max-height juggle. If the threshold is too low, Critical Bursts will need to be readjusted. Luckily I main a character that can launch off a single stun or CH.
Frame Advantage: It would be nicer if there were more moves that were safer or advantage on block, to lead to a better flow of offensive pressure, but the hold system kind of undermines that in a way.
Sidestep and Movement: Sidesteps and general movements need a lot of improvements. The sidesteps are awful to put it lightly. They're slow and don't step the whole string. They need to be greatly sped up and need to step the ENTIRE string like pretty much every other 3D fighter. Stepping a string just to get hit by a retrack from a button-masher is annoying as fuck. Backdashing also could use a tweak to allow for better whiff-punishing.
Furthermore, low attacks, including low wake up kicks, should NEVER EVER be able to hit someone that uses a jumping attack or are in a state of TJ. It's just plain stupid. Another thing also is I think it's dodgy that OH's that are highs can beat out TCing attacks. Jumping OH's also should have 0-tracking ability.
Good Tool Sets For All Characters & All Playstyles and Characters Effective: I agree with this. I would like the roster to be as balanced as possible while maintaining individuality. Let the character's personalities shine through!
Minimize the Power of the Hold: Yes please! Although I love that holds got nerfed in DOA5, I still find that they get abused and spammed. What I'd either like to see are holds getting reduced to only parries (like Pai's) or throw damage getting buffed. IMO, only the grapplers and pseudo-grapplers should get holds and the strikers should get some variation on the parry like Pai. However, this may undermine HC-Throw setups so I would settle for a mild nerfing of holds. I want damage from strikes and combos, not hold spamming.
Overall, I'd like to see DOA's movements (backsteps and sidesteps) improved along with more refinement to TJ's (i.e. better low evasion), and more frame advantage moves. I also would prefer if OH's would be exclusive to just grapplers and pseudo-grapplers.
Life Settings: I like the 270 HP setting. 240HP is ok-ish too but some more powerful moves and throws/OH would need to be tweaked. 300 HP is too high plain and simple. You don't get as much damage reward for your combos or moves, and higher life = more sloppy and scrubby play leading to boring matches.
Guaranteed Damage: If I'd have a choice, I'd leave the SE glitch in to allow for more combo setups but I would like there to be more unholdable stuns overall. I agree that Advanced Holds and Parries should not be allowed from stun (i.e. Critical Holds).
Stun Threshold: I would probably reduce the critical stun max by a smidgen to allow for one less guess before going for a max-height juggle. If the threshold is too low, Critical Bursts will need to be readjusted. Luckily I main a character that can launch off a single stun or CH.
Frame Advantage: It would be nicer if there were more moves that were safer or advantage on block, to lead to a better flow of offensive pressure, but the hold system kind of undermines that in a way.
Sidestep and Movement: Sidesteps and general movements need a lot of improvements. The sidesteps are awful to put it lightly. They're slow and don't step the whole string. They need to be greatly sped up and need to step the ENTIRE string like pretty much every other 3D fighter. Stepping a string just to get hit by a retrack from a button-masher is annoying as fuck. Backdashing also could use a tweak to allow for better whiff-punishing.
Furthermore, low attacks, including low wake up kicks, should NEVER EVER be able to hit someone that uses a jumping attack or are in a state of TJ. It's just plain stupid. Another thing also is I think it's dodgy that OH's that are highs can beat out TCing attacks. Jumping OH's also should have 0-tracking ability.
Good Tool Sets For All Characters & All Playstyles and Characters Effective: I agree with this. I would like the roster to be as balanced as possible while maintaining individuality. Let the character's personalities shine through!
Minimize the Power of the Hold: Yes please! Although I love that holds got nerfed in DOA5, I still find that they get abused and spammed. What I'd either like to see are holds getting reduced to only parries (like Pai's) or throw damage getting buffed. IMO, only the grapplers and pseudo-grapplers should get holds and the strikers should get some variation on the parry like Pai. However, this may undermine HC-Throw setups so I would settle for a mild nerfing of holds. I want damage from strikes and combos, not hold spamming.
Overall, I'd like to see DOA's movements (backsteps and sidesteps) improved along with more refinement to TJ's (i.e. better low evasion), and more frame advantage moves. I also would prefer if OH's would be exclusive to just grapplers and pseudo-grapplers.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
The game does not universal offensive holds.... -sigh-
-inserts TTT2-
From the sounds of things, universal OH's could be possible considering I saw a video where Ein was utilizing it as well. IMO it just add more guessing; I'm pretty content with grapple types being the only characters who can utilize OH's
-inserts TTT2-
From the sounds of things, universal OH's could be possible considering I saw a video where Ein was utilizing it as well. IMO it just add more guessing; I'm pretty content with grapple types being the only characters who can utilize OH's
Zeo
Well-Known Member
Umm... link?
Darth Lotonic X
Active Member
Just because Kasumi has an OH doesn't mean that it's any good. Alpha has a 10 frame OH that's completely worthless.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
On that vid, it looks like motion blur has been added into DOA5U.