Going by these posts, it's almost as if you guys are suggesting I should drop Christie because all my efforts in winning matches with her consistently were entirely illegitimate and based purely on dumb luck. Well, I got news for you. It sure as hell wasn't.
I, of all people, should know dad-gummed well how much I struggled with Christie since the patch back in February '06. She was nothing like 4.0... what with a damage output that's not up to snuff with most of the cast (but more useful stuns in her stance), manipulating Christie's jab pokes could only get me so far-- she gets predictable that way. She struggles with heavyweights on point-- especially Spartan. And why? Her most damaging options rely heavily on air juggles, which mean nothing to the heavy weight classes. She also doesn't offer much in the way of crushes, and compared to Helena's more mobile stance, you literally have to read two steps ahead as far as the ground game is concerned. For the most part, I should be more afraid of the damage I'll be getting dealt from everyone else than the other way around. I have to use the environment more effectively than most of you to scrape by. You can't tell me that all my consistent wins with Christie involved only manipulating jabs, guys. That's bullshit, and it's an unrealistic tactic to use constantly against players that know what they're doing. I promise you that. I have other tools, you know.
Sorry everyone, normally I'm intimidated and tend to back away from discussions like this, but this time I don't care about that. Whether I'm right or wrong, I had to get that out of my chest. As a Christie player who's always been taught that 4.1 Christie was low-mid tier, I'm offended by this "manipulating jabs make Christie teh broken" farce that y'all seem to be implying, especially coming from the very people who seemed to act like my efforts of getting as far as I had at D.I.D. 7 were legit. If I'm taking this the wrong way, then I apologize.
You are taking it the wrong way buddy. And you never need to be intimidated by anything I or anyone else says.
What I was saying was that Christie/Kasumi has a certain kind of mechanic they can exploit to create a really dumb kind of pressure that people recognize and get annoyed by, but other characters like Hitomi/Kokoro have the same mechanic built in just without the speed on the initial attack. This makes it equally frustrating but not as immediately recognizable to the untrained eye.
I was not singling out any particular character or person, I was just saying the system itself is stupid and should be revamped. If it was ripped out of DOA 4, as I said, it would not only break your character but the game as well. Well, worse it is already broken.
I don't believe DOA 5 needs this mechanic though. and I believe it holds the game back greatly as it removes logical defensive action and simply adds a guess as to when a string is over or not. It's not necessary when you have so many other solid mechanics to pull from. Some strings should have delays, yes, but not all.
DrDogg said:
If the delay in a string is so short that you only have 5 frames to react, then it's not much a delay and there isn't really a mind game going on there.
True, although that situation to kind of specific to Christie/Kasumi. Those chicks have really fast jab intervals. Someone like Hitomi has a much larger window to work with, and im guessing the actual window for the delay on a lot of these moves is around 3/4ths of the recovery frame time at least. Think about this from a defenders point of view though.
She's there, ticking you over and over, canceling at random intervals, and just keeps on starting up again. Sometimes she tick throws you into a reset. Maybe thats her entire goal, to keep reseting you over and over again.
So how do you logically get out without either guessing an interrupt point and probably getting CH, or guessing a counter?
Well you'll have to do one or the other, and either is a guess. You're certainly not going to be reacting to it with any consistency, and even if you trained yourself to react to one particular string you'd still have to memorize the delay points on every single other string in the game.
DrDogg said:
Sure, the character may be unsafe after each attack in the string, but that's only on paper. In reality, each attack is safe except for the last one. Think of it like that and what's the problem? It's no different than an attack being safe due to distance or the fact that it recovers crouching or something.
The reason it is different is because when an attack is safe at range, you are at range and can logically recognize it is safe as it happening.
When hitomi starts her karate mixup bullshit, you have no idea when it is going to end since that delayed attack could come at any time and that forces doubt. It might come or it might not, there is no way to tell without guessing. It's not something you can just wait and see on consistently and feel safe doing.
But we have sidestepping in DOA5 according to Team Ninja. It's not out of the question to think that you'll be able to sidestep mid-string (or at the very least, the end of a string). And I would hope that if someone delays, you can step to avoid the next attack.
This would be nice and I really do hope that SS is effective enough to deal with it in DOA 5. That could well be the solution since it's actually a dedicated side dash now instead of a casual freestep.
DrDogg said:
If delays remain in the game, it can still be good. If delays are removed, it doesn't really make the game any better.
Disagree, but I can see where you're coming from with the sidestep remark at least. At the very least the removal/shortening of delays would make the online play substantially less ghetto, such as it is. Well actually, no it wouldn't. It'd still have doa players lol.
Anyway, I've said what's on my mind about this, now I'm just confusing myself because DOA uses fucked up circular logic. This is what happens when you try to win rock-paper-scissors every time. It's like telling someone you know how to divide by zero without running out of paper.