Helena opening move help.
- Thread starter zero23x1
- Start date
MasterGamer
Member
Your best opening move with Helena is to block and hope you don't get grabbed. Then punish accordingly. There's a hint of sarcasm there, but I'm really telling the truth. Aside from that I'd say her down f+k is really good as well. It dodges highs and makes your opponent have to guess your next move. Pretty good mixup potential there.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Getting the first hit in is all about speed. If you can't win based on speed then you need to crush. If you can't crush then block/countering is your best option.
11 frames.
12 frames/easily high crushed.
13 frames/high crushes.
12 frames.
BT 12 frames.
Failing all that use her BKO duck (BKO) to avoid initial attacks at the start of the round. If you can I'd back up and get some space at the start seeing as Helena is much more effective with the correct spacing rather than competing up close.
11 frames. 12 frames/easily high crushed. 13 frames/high crushes. 12 frames.BT
12 frames.Failing all that use her BKO duck (BKO
) to avoid initial attacks at the start of the round. If you can I'd back up and get some space at the start seeing as Helena is much more effective with the correct spacing rather than competing up close.Getting the first hit in is all about speed. If you can't win based on speed then you need to crush. If you can't crush then block/countering is your best option.
BT
Failing all that use her BKO duck (BKO
Always good to be aware of the various options. These do look like the best ones to me (though how often do you open up an opponent with Helena in BT? Usually that's in the middle of something or other).
is probably my favorite to start, especially because you have some really nice flexibility in following it up, but relying on any one starter is dangerous.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Her BTAlways good to be aware of the various options. These do look like the best ones to me (though how often do you open up an opponent with Helena in BT? Usually that's in the middle of something or other).
comes out really fast, I just listed it as it comes out quick. It can work but it is very risky. I'd stick with or .
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
This.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Helena can deal with everything up close, you just have to guess correctly. BKO duck eliminates everything except lows, her jab beats all mid's except 11 framers, her 12 frame mid's beat 13 frame mid's which a lot of characters have and her P+K goes under most things including Jann Lee's 6P which is a 11 frame mid.
She has plenty of options, my guess is that people just want a move that beats everything so they don't have to make any kind of good read. If that's the case then maybe try Jann Lee, Kasumi or Christie cause Helena isn't that brain dead.
She has plenty of options, my guess is that people just want a move that beats everything so they don't have to make any kind of good read. If that's the case then maybe try Jann Lee, Kasumi or Christie cause Helena isn't that brain dead.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
That is pretty much correct for the entire cast. You should stop denying how shitty Helena is. I don't know if people online make you feel like she's fine. She's not. I win with her all the time as well but a quick look at her data in Bryan's guide and her damage is enough to understand she's lacking in everything. I'm even finding Mamba's "forced" tech thing quite useless.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
In regards to what you refer to as Mamba's force tech's if you are finding it useless then you cannot read your opponent and that is your fault, sorry but that is simply the truth. If they are teching then you apply pressure as soon as they get up if they are not teching then you force tech them and then begin applying pressure. If they block or counter you grab if they attack you launch them instantly with either 6K or P+K and if they step you sweep them with 2K. You have such an advantage in this situation and if you cannot utilise it then it's your failing and not Helena's.
Helena has every tool she needs at her disposal to win as long as she can she can make good reads and once you have the advantage your reads become a hell of a lot easier. As it does with every character.
I hope she gets some improvements and soon but this attitude of Helena not being able to do anything is complete bullshit. If you cannot do anything with Helena up close then I think you need to examine your game and stop blaming the character because not everyone is having these problems.
I know Helena has some problems, I have NEVER said she is a solid character with no problems. What I HAVE said is that she has some good tools that when used correctly will carry her regardless of her flaws. I simply choose to focus on what she can do rather ran sitting around crying about what she can't do. Maybe that is the difference between you and me.
I mean you went ahead and "reserved" a combo thread for Helena and you haven't added a single god damn thing to it. So why did you bother making it god knows how long before Helena was even playable in any of the pre release builds? You clearly have no intention of adding anything to it. I try to be nice I really do but watching you contribute nothing but disparaging remarks is obnoxious as hell whilst other players like myself are out there building tech for our character and making the most of what we have.
BlackxxxMamba
Active Member
The fuck? haha.
That's the craziest shit I've heard all day, but Omegan pretty much broke down the flow chart of the White Girl Blender. (Pseudo Force Tech) Don't get it twisted, there is still some reading of the opponent that you have to do, but overall, you're still in the better position to apply pressure and mixups that can possibly lead to resetting the whole situation all over again.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
This true, even Helena's BKO grab force tech in DOA4 required some kind of guess work and that thing was god like.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
No wait, I used the wrong words. It's nice and I obviously trust your words Mamba, the thing is that some other players OUTSIDE FSD were acting like the forced tech magically made her DOA4 Hele again, which is a lie.
On the subject of forced techs, has anyone experimented with the 1k BKO 6p after a juggle? I mentioned it in another thread. Try 9k 236pk 1k. While this does give them two chances to tech out I think it gives a better position after either they tech or the force tech. It's not a replacement for the 236p+k BKO 6p but it may be a good complement.
BlackxxxMamba
Active Member
Yea, I see your point. In my opinion, I think this tech is better than the DOA4 force tech. In DOA4, the only way to get the force tech was from BKO Throw. In DOA5, with this new "Pseudo" force tech, you can get it from the BKO Throw and ANY JUGGLE SHE HAS. (Juggles that do decent damage, THEN you eliminate their wake up kick)
Do I think Helena is as good as she was in DOA4? Hell no. Do I think her DOA5 force tech is better than it was in DOA4? Yes.
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Yeah since techs arent exclusive to her. Other characters can do it better than her right now. Kasumi has some good ones with her teleport P+K.
MCDOA
Member
I'm finally getting the hang of the force tech, and it's awesome.
Especially because a lot of people don't expect it. Helena is IMO all about momentum, and the force tech really helps her with that.
On the topic, I always try opening with P or K, and see how my opponent responds. If they are faster than me I just back away, if they always open with a block, I run up and start with a throw.
Especially because a lot of people don't expect it. Helena is IMO all about momentum, and the force tech really helps her with that.
On the topic, I always try opening with P or K, and see how my opponent responds. If they are faster than me I just back away, if they always open with a block, I run up and start with a throw.
Absolutely. I think guaranteeing the force tech in some situations and giving her 236p+k and string enders +2 or so on block would actually probably do the job though. If she can keep up force tech pressure and she can get into BKO at advantage that makes her other options being unsafe a little more justified. Right now I can assure you the grapplers do force tech miles better than anything Helena's got.
Have people tried 236p+k off juggles, just out of interest? I suspect it might be a decent pseudo force tech but I haven't tried it. I do think the 1k BKO 6p has some serious potential though, particularly since you can then start using the p followup to guard break or interrupt after the tech if you don't cancel to BKO. Don't know if going to backturned gives you anything of note. Also, it seems like 1ppk may be a guaranteed force tech in some situations? I can only get it to reliably work after a raw 9k. If anyone has any information on that I'd appreciate it.