Bass' Nerf

[Tom Brady]

Why on earth is the pick up no longer guaranteed after 6KP? That is by far the most common pick up situation and it guarantees that Bass will always get a pick up no matter how he launches and no matter if its normal, counter, HC.

This is vital to him being a viable character in DOA.

In DOA4 there were totally worthless characters who can only compete by holding. In DOA5 I'd like every character to have some dirt and tools OUTSIDE of the generic defensive hold.

If a patch is ever done for this game, they should give Bass back the free pick up after 6KP.

 

[Matt Ponton]

As I complained about on another topic:

His tier placement is based on what options other characters have, and right now his main trouble match ups are still Kasumi and Jann Lee. I'm fine with those being his trouble match ups as that's really just expected. What I'm not fine with is taking away his main tool for pressure. A tool that doesn't guarantee anything and does no damage. It's one of the main reasons he was so bad in DOA4 and they've gone and returned him to damn near close to that status.

Just because people saw me on stream beating up someone who hadn't really played the game that well on one of Bass' best stages doesn't mean that he's god tier. Keep in mind that I did not win that tournament and lost my first set to a Kasumi player and second loss to a Jann Lee.

Bass' pick-up grants him a front facing frame advantage that's +11. His fastest attack period is i12 but it's a high that doesn't string or juggle, and his fastest mid is i14. Compare that to Kasumi's i9 high string combo and i11 mids and you can see he's not supposed to win on speed of attacks. Hell, half of his strings can be guarded mid string even if he attacks (3KP on cb i'm looking at you) or even held on reaction. His stats show this that 'attacks' are a 1/5. So he has a tool that does no damage, pushes the opponent far enough away that the fastest attack with enough range he can do is i16 meaning the opponent has 5 frames of movement available to them. The throw was granting him a way to fight fast speed characters. It was following his stats and allowed him pressure while still allowing the opponent a way out.

Seriously, I can't tell you how stupid this nerf is and how pissed off I am.

Meanwhile, Hayabusa gets to KEEP his AIR attacking 3H+K // PP4PK which not only gives +9 on guard break, can't be interrupted with anything but a mid kick hold, gives him a knockdown mix-up, but is also a visibly linear AIR attack that TRACKS.

Yeah. Balance. pft.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

It seems strange that Bass needed nerfing but Busa is just fine. Just shows how clueless developers are when it comes to balance choices.

Bass will still be a good character he just won't be a potent as he could have been.
Look on the bright side though, he will still be a hell of a lot better than Lisa and Helena.

 

[Tom Brady]

The only tool that ever made Bass a top character in DOA was his pick up and free super launch punish. I'm fine with the super launch punish being gone as a guarantee after blocking any string so long as the super launch throw is still in the game in some way(which it is as a catch throw.. although I think maybe it should need a charge up), but he NEEDS the pick up guaranteed off of 6KP because its the only way Bass always gets a pick up.

Bass always takes risk, but the reward is always getting the pick up and free 50/50 that follows. Notice I said 50/50, because nothing is guaranteed. Buffalo horn follow up can be SS or blocked and punished or even held. Catch throw can be throw for HC damage or crouched and then thrown for HC damage. Bass can try a faster throw to beat out your throw attempt but again this can be crouched or just busted in the face for a HCB. There was never a guarantee after the pick up, there is no reason to nerf Bass here.

YES.. I know the pick up is guaranteed off of other attacks.. BUT.. Bass needs pick up to be guaranteed off of any launch height after Buffalo horn/8K in order to actually be a viable character an not a "he would have been great if he had..." character.


Obviously when I heard Bass was becoming Tom Brady Bass again I was excited, only to have my excitement crushed like a kid finding out Santa isn't real lol.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I would normally jump on the bandwagon but after spending so much time trying to get TN to buff Helena, seeing as she was thought to be the worst character in the game and she still didn't get any real buff's to help I have just found myself in the position of well TN will do whatever they like and we have to just accept it and get on with it.

I know how you feel in regards to disappointment. Watching your character go from Top Tier to absolute garbage is gutting. Try to focus on the positives though. He is still a monster, you've got a great character waiting for you on the 25th.

 

[Matt Ponton]

YES.. I know the pick up is guaranteed off of other attacks.. BUT.. Bass needs pick up to be guaranteed off of any launch height after Buffalo horn/8K in order to actually be a viable character an not a "he would have been great if he had..." character.


Obviously when I heard Bass was becoming Tom Brady Bass again I was excited, only to have my excitement crushed like a kid finding out Santa isn't real lol.

Santa's not REAL!?!!??!

Oh, and what you know as 8K is now 7K (and it doesn't cause wall splat), and as of GVN/IPL build the 41236H+P doesn't connect on a guarding opponent from pick-up.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

as of GVN/IPL build the 41236H+P doesn't connect on a guarding opponent from pick-up.

Wait you can't connect a specific grab off of a reset? That doesn't make much sense, what are the properties of the grab?

If it's his launch grab then I guess they are trying to avoid loops, like how they removed Helena's BKO force tech or Kasumi's 6K/6F+P wake up loop.

 

[Matt Ponton]

They are just pushed away too far out of range for the active frames of the grab to connect against their guarding hurt box.

If they try attacking then it will grab them if their hurt or active box comes out within range. However, you can't get a full charged super freak off of it, and a regulare super freak doesn't loop to a pick up.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Wait you can't connect a specific grab off of a reset? That doesn't make much sense, what are the properties of the grab?

If it's his launch grab then I guess they are trying to avoid loops, like how they removed Helena's BKO force tech or Kasumi's 6K/6F+P wake up loop.

WHAT!! I know Kasumi's 6k is not her 9k and its just a knock down, but it cant force tech anymore?! What am i gonna do now, thats what i did most of the time. Dr. Dogg did say force techs are still here, its just the next attack isny guaranteed, or something along those lines. Poor Bass players now, at least Kasumi has other tactics to still make her work well.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

WHAT!! I know Kasumi's 6k is not her 9k and its just a knock down, but it cant force tech anymore?! What am i gonna do now, thats what i did most of the time.

It does force tech in some situations but you don't get a huge bounce when it lands any more so they pay off is much less.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

It does force tech in some situations but you don't get a huge bounce when it lands any more so they pay off is much less.

I know the bounce is gone, i already mourned enough over that but the force tech info is all new to me. And since it situational do you mean you have to execute it right away? Im kinda ok with this since force techers are the main reason i lose.

 

[DrDogg]

Bass is still good, I just wouldn't consider him top tier anymore. He has WAY better tools than at least half the cast even with the nerf. Should he have been nerfed? No, but that goes for about half the cast at this point. At least Bass retained what made him good in the first place, even if it can't be used quite as much or as easily. It's still very useful and very good.

He's easily upper mid-tier at the moment. That's mainly because the other characters keep getting nerfed, but it doesn't change the fact that Bass is still very much a viable character.

 

[Tom Brady]

Bass's biggest strength was NEVER having to deal with the wake up kick EVER. This nerf obviously changes that. I'll just find some other dirt with him.

 

[LostSkeleton73]

Blargh. Of all the stupid changes to make, get rid of one that makes him solid.
So freakin help me, if he was nerfed because some Busa player felt he was too dangerous.....

 

[UncleKitchener]

and as of GVN/IPL build the 41236H+P doesn't connect on a guarding opponent from pick-up.

They are just pushed away too far out of range for the active frames of the grab to connect against their guarding hurt box.

If they try attacking then it will grab them if their hurt or active box comes out within range. However, you can't get a full charged super freak off of it, and a regulare super freak doesn't loop to a pick up.

Welp, so much for being hyped-up and enthusiastic about this game. This didn't even need nerfing. It's slower than his DOA3 grab and they can duck and SS the buffalo or even fuzzy guard. Who are the internal testers for this game?

I was gonna say that I was fine with not guaranteeing a pick-up when they tech it (which would've still made it safe), but now that I know that it's back to DOA4 without teching...

This is 3 steps forward 2 steps back.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I know the bounce is gone, i already mourned enough over that but the force tech info is all new to me. And since it situational do you mean you have to execute it right away? Im kinda ok with this since force techers are the main reason i lose.

I can't give you a good answer unfortunately, all I know is some knock downs allow force tech and others don't. I don't know what works for what knock down though. Regardless without the threat of the huge bounce the loop is no longer a threat even if the tech set up is still there.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

I don't understand why they've nerfed anyone at all. Hopefully Bass gets this back in a patch later on. I'm glad that DrDogg says he's still good though. He needs a comeback after seven years of being raped.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

Bass is still good, I just wouldn't consider him top tier anymore. He has WAY better tools than at least half the cast even with the nerf. Should he have been nerfed? No, but that goes for about half the cast at this point. At least Bass retained what made him good in the first place, even if it can't be used quite as much or as easily. It's still very useful and very good.

He's easily upper mid-tier at the moment. That's mainly because the other characters keep getting nerfed, but it doesn't change the fact that Bass is still very much a viable character.

Is there a list of all the nerfs on all characters?

 

[DrDogg]

Bass's biggest strength was NEVER having to deal with the wake up kick EVER. This nerf obviously changes that. I'll just find some other dirt with him.

This isn't 3.1. The dirt has already been found, and it's way better than most other character's dirt.

Is there a list of all the nerfs on all characters?

No.

 

[Raansu]

Welp, so much for being hyped-up and enthusiastic about this game. This didn't even need nerfing. It's slower than his DOA3 grab and they can duck and SS the buffalo or even fuzzy guard. Who are the internal testers for this game?

I was gonna say that I was fine with not guaranteeing a pick-up when they tech it (which would've still made it safe), but now that I know that it's back to DOA4 without teching...

This is 3 steps forward 2 steps back.

A bunch of scrubs