No, I was talking about synce's idea of having a crazy bitch character in DOA and what style she would have.
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No, I was talking about synce's idea of having a crazy bitch character in DOA and what style she would have.
Wing Chun or Nan Chuan could work.
Ghosty-J
Well-Known Member
Akumasama
Active Member
It was a cool idea badly implemented.
They seem like a bad copy/paste of their VF counterpart rather than a complete reinterpretation, like guests characters should be inside another BEU.
Also 1 Guest is ok, 2 can be ok too, 3 is way too much. This is DoA5, not DoA vs Virtua Fighter.
My two cents at least.
And what you said too, put guests when u're done with all the classic characters. But reality is that those additional characters would have costed a lot of effort for them, while the VF ones were pretty fast to develop appearently, and clearly it shows it was that way.
Not familiar with them, but I'm sure they're cool. I'd like to see more styles in DOA.
Okay... ha ha. And with that, let's try to get back on topic. Any word on those stupid bunny bikini swaps yet?
Nightpup
Well-Known Member
Except mine.
We have Christie for psycho bitch. Her bio says she has an obsession with Helena and refuses to let anyone harm her.DOA could definitely use a psycho bitch type character. Juri got me back into SFI'd also like a girl that always wears a mask (Kunimitsu freak here)
But if we were to have a new one, I'd say give her Vale Tudo.
Dave
Well-Known Member
I don't really understand why you say they are bad copy/paste jobs... The 3 guest Virtua Fighter characters are so damn smooth in the game. It's so fun to play them, they just require more patience and learning. I think it's neat Team Ninja wanted to pay tribute to something they are inspired by. Who cares how many guests they wanted to add into Dead or Alive 5, they did it because they wanted to.
synce
Well-Known Member
I think he's more disappointed that TN prioritized guest characters at the expense of losing something like 5 characters from DOAD. It was inevitable though, both VF and DOA don't sell as well as other fighting games so they had to "team up." This gets VF people to try DOA and DOA people to try VF. It actually worked as I've never been able to get into VF until picking up Pai in DOA5
@Nightpup
By crazy I mean like Juri's bloodlust or Tira's split personalities... To me Christie is just a bad girl, I never got the impression she wasn't right in the head. If I had my way DOA6 would have some chick straddling everyone, clawing at their faces, and banging her head against the ground lol
@Nightpup
By crazy I mean like Juri's bloodlust or Tira's split personalities... To me Christie is just a bad girl, I never got the impression she wasn't right in the head. If I had my way DOA6 would have some chick straddling everyone, clawing at their faces, and banging her head against the ground lol
Pls explain to me how they are a bad copy paste ?
- completely re-designed model of all 3.
- adding hold animations where missing.
- adding low throws where missing.
- adding sidestep moves (although they had them in VF4)
- simplifying inputs in order to blend well.
- changing stun properties in order to blend well while still maintaining their feel and balance.
Not to mention that the VF system is the closest system to DOA.. using the same button layout and a very close triangle system.
All 3 characters not only fit well, they play well and are arguably some of the best characters in the cast.
In fact they did such a great job to the point that I really DO hope that they go ahead and do a full blown DOAxVF.
And for the old school players this could not have been a better gift, as well as a nice tribute to the game that DOA was basically born from.
Akumasama
Active Member
I'm glad you enjoy, but I still wholeheartedly disagree with their behaviour of going the easy way of three copypasted character to have a bigger roster, since they didn't have the time/money to fully develop 3 DoA characters and adapt them to the new style of DoA5.
I love VF but they just look ugly inside DoA, they're just rushed portings. Check Yoshimitsu inside Soul Calibur or Tekken Characters in SFvsT to see how to really make guests characters of game X inside game Y.
Those are good examples, by my standards, Akira, Pai and Sarah in DoA5 are not, they're just rushed content to my eyes, period.
Seeing those VF-style air juggles/combos with jabs and ugly-looking moves inside DoA just hurts my eyes. If I wanna play VF I play VF, but this is DoA, not VF and not DoA vs VF.
Just my view on the topic, to each his own I guess.
I love VF but they just look ugly inside DoA, they're just rushed portings. Check Yoshimitsu inside Soul Calibur or Tekken Characters in SFvsT to see how to really make guests characters of game X inside game Y.
Those are good examples, by my standards, Akira, Pai and Sarah in DoA5 are not, they're just rushed content to my eyes, period.
Seeing those VF-style air juggles/combos with jabs and ugly-looking moves inside DoA just hurts my eyes. If I wanna play VF I play VF, but this is DoA, not VF and not DoA vs VF.
Just my view on the topic, to each his own I guess.
Akumasama
Active Member
Copy-paste is a figure of speach of course, an hyperbole to be more exact.
It stands to convey the meaning that they did the least amount of work possible, the minimum required.
It's not a paragon of how a good adaptation should be.
Models are not completely redesigned, they are tweaked and it shows. They didn't spend hours/weeks/months in creating new models from zero and adapting their aesthetics to the DoA canons.
They did the same with the crappy low-quality voiceovers, which are available in just one Language and those are truly copypasted of course.
They took their movestyle, changed some properties, watered down their styles, adapted a few things here and there and that's it.
This is what I define a "rushed" work, this is what I define as them doing the minimum required and not the optimal work.
You don't put 3 guest characters into a game to leave 3 one from the classic roster outside.
It's obvious they did it because in the time they created those 3 VF guests they would have managed to create only 1 of the Others, probably.
Some of their animations are just unbearable to see, just like I hate the original VF sound effects (which, tbf, I hate in VF as well) brought over to DoA.
Some of Akiras, Pai's and Sarah's air juggles are HORRIBLE. Those jabs juggling over and over and over and over.
One of the things I Always loved about DoA is how fantastic 99% of the combos look.
Which is not the case in a wide range of VF and Tekken combos (I love VF for other reasons)
Yes, the roots of DOA are very similar to those of VF.
Yes, DoA originally came from a VF2 mod and Itagaki loved VF and was "supervised" by none other than Yu Suzuki himself at the time.
Yes, it's absolutely true, ad that's exactely why I'm saying what I'm saying.
They do blend, to a certain degree, not because of the "good work" Team Ninja did, but just because of these exact reasons, of these natural similarities.
Which, appearently, are not enough to make the characters blend REALLY well, like if they had been carefully adapted (and not rushed!) to the new game.
They just did a horrible work from my point of view, and of course to my eyes people who don't see things this way either are biased because of their love for VF or they just have very low quality standards compared to mine.
In the end though, of course, I suppose it's just a matter of tastes and opinions, but I was really disappointed by this choice and hope they will not repeat it in the future if not for lonely bonus characters.
I'm talking about the main episodes of the series. I wouldn't mind a DoA vs VF myself of course, but that would be a Whole different story.
Imho they just blend particularly bad with the rest of the cast and with the "DoA style". I could partially say the same things about Mila, but to a muuuuuuch lesser degree.
Keylay
Well-Known Member
I understand what you mean but I still think the VF characters fit in DOA5. I was hoping their moves would look smoother. I was excited to see what Team NINJA would do to their animations but they used the animations Sega gave them. I'm not sure if they had to or if they wanted to. You can tell that they are different from the DOA characters. Akira's animations probably fit the best. I think Team NINJA wanted to bring over some Virtua Figther fans by keeping the characters as close as possible to VF. But Team NINJA definitely spent time working on the VF character models.
Akumasama
Active Member
I'm not saying "there is no way on earth VF characters can fit in DoA".
Anything can fit in DoA, if carefully adapted, and of course it's pretty obvious that with VF characters it's much easier than with others (not a coincidence we got 3 VF ones after all).
I just said that while the adaptation is not the most terrible thing that ever happened in history, it's still way below my expectations and way below from the level of blendiness between characters that I expect from a DoA title.
We're back to square one and back to what we said (well "we", many people, I suppose not everybody may agree) about DoA5 being an awesome game with an awesome gameplay, but terribly buggy/rushed on many little details.
VF characters is one of them, altough I'd call it a pretty fuck*ng big "detail" if you ask me
Anything can fit in DoA, if carefully adapted, and of course it's pretty obvious that with VF characters it's much easier than with others (not a coincidence we got 3 VF ones after all).
I just said that while the adaptation is not the most terrible thing that ever happened in history, it's still way below my expectations and way below from the level of blendiness between characters that I expect from a DoA title.
We're back to square one and back to what we said (well "we", many people, I suppose not everybody may agree) about DoA5 being an awesome game with an awesome gameplay, but terribly buggy/rushed on many little details.
VF characters is one of them, altough I'd call it a pretty fuck*ng big "detail" if you ask me
ErickBello
Active Member
Speaking of which, I got an idea... TN / Tecmo Koei should make an DLC Contest.
Putting certain costume ideas, comebacks or new stages for voting on the official page, making the fans and their wallets happy, also at a certain time, they should give the most voted content as a Free DLC.
Putting certain costume ideas, comebacks or new stages for voting on the official page, making the fans and their wallets happy, also at a certain time, they should give the most voted content as a Free DLC.
Yes. Love it. Make it happen.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
In reality this costs them a lot of money and it would just be a big loss for them if it were free.
The work was by no means minimal.
Sarah's face alone took them ages to get down to an approved appearance by both companies ... sending models back and forth just to get her to look right. Same for Akira and Pai (but Sarah took way longer) So yes, they did in fact spend hours / weeks / months to get the models right.
So you want a character from another game with a different moveset ?! What did you want them to do shoot laser out of their ass ?You cant change the move set .. otherwise you don't have the same damn character any more .. which was the whole point in the first place.
As far as the voice overs go, this was a decision to keep the original voices as it was iconic to the characters ... having a Japanese Sarah would not have sunk well with the Japanese (where VF is especially far more popular)
And no it was not a simple copy paste job. they had to re-write everything (yes sega played a big role in giving them all the data of their games but the work had to be re-done to accommodate the game... not all games are made using the same software) this also includes hit boxes, changing speeds of startup/active/recovery frames. DOA is just much faster.
Changing the properties and watering it down is also not an overnight job either... it requires and intense amount of time and money. The skullgirls petition is proof enough for this on a 2D scale. Not to mention that there is an implementation of new concepts with these characters, including throws that connected after a move hits on block. and just frame inputs.. They also needed to make sure that the DOA buffer system worked well with them.
Also, saying that adding Hold, Low throw, and sidestep animations is minimal is also completely ignorant.
So you don't like the characters .. that's fine .. but bashing months and months of designing, tweaking and balancing and calling it half assed is extremely ignorant.
I want Leon and voiced out my opinion about wanting him back more than anyone in this forum (including funding a contest and building hype) .. Trust me I'd love to have him (as well as Ein and Tengu) back, but not by insulting the great work thats already been done with the game in general and with the VF cast, especially if you have no clue about how the programming process works in the first place.
Dave
Well-Known Member
Sorry, what? They are guest characters... what did you want them to do? Like I don't get what you are saying. Of course the models aren't redesigned and re-worked, they are from a DIFFERENT game. Team Ninja simply wanted to pay tribute to a game that molded them into what they are so they asked if they could add guest characters to Dead or Alive. And about the sound effects... those were clearly kept because they are signature to the Virtua Fighter series, and I thought it was hella neat that they chose to add the swooshing and such from Virtua Fighter. Shows they really admire Sega's work. And you say no work went into the models? Mmm... kay. Sarah's face alone should prove that wrong. She looks so much closer to her render than in any Virtua Fighter game. You can tell they put as much works as they did for the original cast as they did their guest fighters.
WAAAGHLORD
Member
so.....When is my Bayman cross dressing dlc coming TN?