Eliot 1.03 patch impressions

[DontForkWitMe]

ELIOT

• P+K: changed hit reactions from Counter hit or higher to sit-down stuns (NOPE!)
• 33P: changed damage from 10+15 to 13+15.
• 1K4PP: changed damage from 24 to 20, changed disadvantage on guard from -5 to -12F.
• 1KP46P: fixed an issue that prevented this move from being performed.
• Rising P+K: changed disadvantage on guard from GB(-23) to GB(-5F).
• P+K: changed hit reactions from crouching Counter hit or higher to sit-down stuns
• Sidestep P: changed damage from 15 to 20

-P+K causing sitdown on both standing and crouching opponents on counter hit is a welcome buff. it gives eliot a solid single strike midpunch sitdown stun to work with plus on hit it will guarantee the followup 2nd hit of all his P+K string variations so opponents cant immediately hold after getting hit by P+K (TN once again back-pedaled on a soild eliot tool after screwing him over with his pre-launch parry nerf)

-33p causing 3points more damage was a worthless buff as the move is trash overall with it being slow, not giving any decent launch height and can be countered by 2 different holds inputs

-1k4pp being nerfed doesn't really change anything as the strings only use was to get eliot in backturned stance for mixups after 1k4p

-1kp46p is technically a new move since it never existed so don't know what they're talking about it being prevented. either way its another string that eliot can guardbreak from and negates the 1k4pp nerf

-wakeup P+K getting buffed and not leaving him completely helpless on block is a welcome but non game changing buff. don't know wtf they were thinking making a guardbreak -23

-sidestep P buff is also worthless and doesn't really effect anything as the attack itself is garbage and eliots better off using sidestep k


overall hes essentially the same and this patch doesn't really do crap to boost him from anything but low tier

 

[Batcommander]

Did they just add this new buff? I don't remember seeing 3kp buff earlier. But it is a great addition, indeed!

 

[DontForkWitMe]

upon further inspection it seems d3v copied and pasted shit wrong in his news story and got changes from other characters mixed up and the 3kp buff is chrisites. so nope eliot is still complete garbage it looks like. should've known it was too good to be true

 

[Batcommander]

Damn, that totally fucking sucks.

 

[ScattereDreams]

He's just the that kid now with a i9 punch and does good damage, practically still DOA4 Eliot but with better combo's and frame traps. Improvements weren't all that. Some characters with buffs have definitely surpassed him. I'll put him at the bottom of mid tier.

 

[Belinea]

He's just the that kid now with a i9 punch and does good damage, practically still DOA4 Eliot but with better combo's and frame traps. Improvements weren't all that. Some characters with buffs have definitely surpassed him. I'll put him at the bottom of mid tier.

I'd still say that Doa4 Eliot was a better character, and had better frame traps, especially now that you can't frame trap with throws in 1.03. But yeah, I agree with him being bottom of mid tier. This patch was fine imo, nothing to get upset about.

Edit: Or maybe he is low tier now. I hadn't considered the system wide buff to sidesteps, and how damaging it could be to his play style. Also I doubt he'll gain anything from untechable axe kicks, considering he already has such setups.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

yup hes definitely higher end of lowtier at best if you see the buffs the rest of the cast got compared to his measily worthless changes lisa shot straight up to high tier with what they did to her,bayman got one buff that essentially makes him a complete beast with tons of guaranteed options now with p+k causing sitdown on counter hit, helena still has her resets and became safer, the ninjas got essential buffs as did the grapplers with the health reduction, rig got essential buffs, VF characters are even more dangerous with damage buffs to go along with heatlh reduction. out of all the characters only alpha has it worse then eliot now with her severe nerfs.

thats not even including the system-wide changes that do nothing but hurt him, he no longer can take advantage of backturned stuns with attacks now auto turning opponents after the first attack from a BT stun, sidesteps are faster making it even easier to avoid his linear attacks where he has no worthwhile tracking moves to compensate. crouch blocking is much faster making his already mediocre lows easier to react to especially 2H+K which was his best low. he also can't take advantage of slippery surfaces anymore which helped his otherwise horrible mixup game. all these nerfs while still having horrible tracking, no guaranteed setups, and relying on the stun/guessing game pretty much destroys him

 

[Allan Paris]

Well that's new to me, what are Eliot's frame traps?

I will be spamming the shit out of P+K every chance I get.

 

[ScattereDreams]

When back turned 5k is blocked he's left at -2 and using his i9 7p it becomes a i11 frame trap. The fastest thing that can stop it is a jab, but he has a high punch sabaki to shut that down. He can also create frame traps from 46p guard breaks using 7p, or 6f+k. backturned 5k when blocked creates i11 frame traps, 46p creates i12, and 6f+k creates i13 frame traps. Well.. you may have to add +1 one frame due to DOA's sill frame rules.

But no one actually uses them other than me lol.

 

[Allan Paris]

Ok, so for 2 of these frame traps to be successful, you can't be playing against a character with a 9i or 10i jab, or a character with a quick mid (11i, 12i)? Also, would lows completely avoid this frame trap? It seems that 7P needs to be applied to frame trap successfully. His 6P and 2P are slow as hell and would get beat out.

Am I correct on how this works or is it more to it than 7P to frame trap?

 

[ScattereDreams]

Most players generally go for i13 - i15 mids. Against characters with i9/i10 jabs it becomes a 50/50 because he has his high punch sabaki (214p) which leads to a 2-hit CB. Lows would evade the frame trap, but so far, no one has caught on to this tactic yet.

 

[synce]

Go on...

 

[Belinea]

I was going to make a thread on frame traps a few weeks ago, but my xbox broke, which meant I wouldn't be able to back them up or test them out if someone found a problem with them. Anyway, Eliot has loads of traps, especially from force techs and tech rolling, similar to this doa4 version.

For example:

6f+k creates i13 frame traps.

This then leads into an unholdable 236k or 236p if they tech roll afterwards towards a wall.

And this one I was referring to earlier -

I'd still say that Doa4 Eliot was a better character, and had better frame traps, especially now that you can't frame trap with throws in 1.03.

-were Eliot can can make 66h+p and 4h+p into a frame trap if the opponent tech rolls after being hit out of the air with 1p. (I use this as my main trick to switch positions, but it's useless now with 1.03)

But no one actually uses them other than me lol.

I use them all the time! It's my main style of play probably.

 

[Allan Paris]

Most players generally go for i13 - i15 mids. Against characters with i9/i10 jabs it becomes a 50/50 because he has his high punch sabaki (214p) which leads to a 2-hit CB. Lows would evade the frame trap, but so far, no one has caught on to this tactic yet.

Ok, so I am right. FYI, personally I will low jab the shit out of you, that's why I was asking. I wanted to see if the trap could be beaten. Though you are right, most people will stand there or try to hit a button that will get them blown up.

For example:

6f+k creates i13 frame traps.

This then leads into an unholdable 236k or 236p if they tech roll afterwards towards a wall.

How does this frame trap lead to an unholdable? 236K is a 27i frame move and 236P is 24i move, you can be straight out attacked and beaten, SS, ducked and throw punished (236k is -7 and 236P is -8), or guarded and then throw punished, why hold? I must be missing something about this, please explain more how this frame trap leads into these unholdables.

Edit: is 6H+K being used as a force tech?

 

[Belinea]

Kind of. 6h+k knocks them to the ground, which guarantees 2k. If they tech roll from that they are momentarily unable to hold.

Perhaps not the best example though, as it seems 236k or p being unholdable is a wall glitch, but he does have other unholdable options he could go for.

But those examples rely on the opponent tech rolling. Whereas it's only possible to force low unholdables from force teching ( as of 1.02 anyway).

...why hold?

Oh I wasn't really trying argue for the usefulness of this setup, but rather highlight the fact that he has unholdable frame traps out the wazoo.

 

[Allan Paris]

Thank you for explaining and providing visuals of this.

 

[TakedaZX]

You know, I was hoping that 4k would finally get an actual move put in it's place, like tracking inside crescent kick that leads straight into BT (like Kokoro's 7k, or Bayman's 7k). I know he technically has two mid kick launchers already but it'd at least be nice to get him a tracking mid.

It'd also be nice if 236k wasn't -7 on GB. I don't understand why it still is...

 

[DontForkWitMe]

i just have no clue what TN is even doing with eliot. its obvious THEY don't even know or otherwise they wouldn't even bother with the 33p bs buff or give him another sitdown stun with nothing worthwhile guaranteed from it . he doesn't even play the DOA4 stun game well much less not having access to DOA5's mechanics. helena and hitomi players bitch about it but at least those characters have the speed and mixup tools to excel at it where eliot doesn't even have that going for him. he is literally ALL guessing while being slow, unsafe, no tracking, and no mixup tools.

now imagine the same eliot going up against buffed up ninjas,vf characters, rig, bayman, bass, lisa etc... and you see just how fucked he really is. im at the point of just straight up dropping him

 

[TakedaZX]

i just have no clue what TN is even doing with eliot. its obvious THEY don't even know or otherwise they wouldn't even bother with the 33p bs buff or give him another sitdown stun with nothing worthwhile guaranteed from it . he doesn't even play the DOA4 stun game well much less not having access to DOA5's mechanics. helena and hitomi players bitch about it but at least those characters have the speed and mixup tools to excel at it where eliot doesn't even have that going for him. he is literally ALL guessing while being slow, unsafe, no tracking, and no mixup tools.

now imagine the same eliot going up against buffed up ninjas,vf characters, rig, bayman, bass, lisa etc... and you see just how fucked he really is. im at the point of just straight up dropping him

Which is why I proposed a use for 4k since it's remained an unused input for the past 3 games. Even 214p could track despite the fact that it's a sabaki. That'd give him something to work with. What's worse is he has no tracking lows either but I wouldn't know where to go with that.

Hell the could even do things with 4H+K since it's also unused. How about a kick similar to Hitomi's 6H+K? I mean these ideas are popping off.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

welp i got even worse news for those hoping p+k sitdown would be useful. just downloaded the patch on 1.03 and it does not sitdown standing opponents on counter-hit, only those in crouch state on counter hit so its basically WORSE than 66k which sitdowns crouching opponents on normal and counter-hit. so in the end eliot actually got zero worthwhile buffs.

what a fucking joke