6++ Gameplay Overhaul
- Thread starter Rev_an
- Start date
Z_Hime
New Member
Would love to try this but uhh...I just crash on boot screen.
Copied the 3 files into the root of doa6 and it crashes.
When i remove them, I boot just fine.
Is there a specific redelbe version you should run? - I'm on 3.0 (the newest and final version)
Prob wont install if Redelbe is the issue because im not going to go through the effort.
The installation seemed easy enough....any ideas? -- would be interested in checking this out.
Serious question though....why was BT 2p refloat with P4 removed....LOL
It's kind of important considering it's the only thing she gets after 33p which...is...a launch on stun....
Copied the 3 files into the root of doa6 and it crashes.
When i remove them, I boot just fine.
Is there a specific redelbe version you should run? - I'm on 3.0 (the newest and final version)
Prob wont install if Redelbe is the issue because im not going to go through the effort.
The installation seemed easy enough....any ideas? -- would be interested in checking this out.
Serious question though....why was BT 2p refloat with P4 removed....LOL
It's kind of important considering it's the only thing she gets after 33p which...is...a launch on stun....
im surprised Ponton didn't say anything about the refreshed design, but ya it got updated a few days ago
i guess try running a games file check in steam, then copy over the mod files again and over write them. try turning off steam overlay in the steam options too
Rev_an
Active Member
i'll look at it again but iirc i was messing with the opcode for animation playback speed (0x0A 00 is normal, smaller is slower and bigger is faster) and i set it to like 30,000x and the box still said 2 if there wasn't an incoming high
or you like clip through the ground because the physics doesn't keep up. It's also a timeline edit on each character which is an incredibly tedious thing to do.
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@Z_Hime message me on steam or discord sometime, it should be fine with current redelbe
after watching a few 6++ streams, not sure I agree with these capsule changes. The only thing that shouldve been done was remove the pills, but rev took it too far. stuff like 8T is useless now, a glorified jump. They were added there way before the great wall of pill for a reason. Its also ridiculous some of the push capsule removals are.
Radiance
Well-Known Member
Rev_an
Active Member
I take your point but I think there are better (and easier for me to program, lol) solutions to what you're trying to address by suggesting I rehabilitate fatal rush.
there are several fundamental problems with fatal rush from a design perspective (which i don't really expect other people to care about all that much), from a balance/gameplay perspective (which you should care about), and from an aesthetic one which is subjective but some things don't match the old-head sensibilities I'm going for.
the balance problem with fatal rush is right there in your comment, it eats combo diversity because of the damage and the wall carry. Options are gone in some sense because that juggle simply isn't available but it was the best thing to do too much of the time, which is the sort of problem that led me to make juggle bounds not work at the wall, which has been well-received outside of one guy who wanted me to undo a christie nerf and people who didn't read the part of the patchnotes where I said it was universal.
Some of those characters probably need something, but rehabilitating fatal rush would be a huge opportunity cost of editing animation controls, inputs, hit-reactions (because that shit really shouldn't be a movie of guaranteed hits in stun), pushcapsule adjustments (some characters couldn't juggle with sss4s in vanilla), damage, and probably doing something about how useless a telegraphed auto-combo is when you can just hold it. Maybe it shouldn't be a hit confirm, because that's kinda fucken weird for DOA to have a long-ass hit confirm string instead of like one on-hit followup. Do the mid-string fatal rush moves have appropriate values for things like tracking and on block? or (dis)advantage on non-FS hits? I'd be shocked if anyone knows, those properties never mattered before... but yeah even the least ambitious version of all that is a pile of work compared to other things I could do instead.
and that's setting aside the mindlessly mashing one button nature of the string not matching the visuals of it. At least ppppp doesn't pretend to be something it isn't with a bunch of gaudy vfx and sfx that are visually discordant with the visual design of most of the other animations and fx in the game. more work if i want the game to stay looking right.
For all that effort I'd rather bring in old strings (see... a bunch of character strings, and more to come) or work out new juggles (see kula 3p+k 6k, or honoka DS K4) for those characters who lost something in the larger shakeups.
And i think people would like those creative solutions better. We had 3 years of mindless fatal rush and close-hit bound; speaking just for myself I'm really enjoying that I
Radiance
Well-Known Member
The only thing real problem with bound/close hit combos was that
- they were no alternate routes for max damage combos
- some characters simply could not benefit from bound into close/hit
Rig, for example; his only close hitting move is his dragon kick. I don't know if TN was just stupid, or just decided the character already had so much shit and didn't need it. Hayate also has a bound that's pretty terrible, 9KKK and BT 7K being a close hit that you will probably never see. Team Ninja created a formula that doesn't work for the cast. They could have given characters at least 3-4 bounds and same for close hitting moves which would have added more variety, but they didn't.
If bound -> Close hit is your gripe, then start there by giving characters more bounds (if you can).
For some characters, the damage from fatal rush carry is so minimal and only provides the utility of wall carry. The fact is those, that these are options some of the characters have never had before, thus, adding new moves wouldn't solve the problem - they just have less options now.
I don't understand, it seems like what you guys are trying to play is DOA5LR++ and not DOA6. Admittedly there are some things I don't like about DOA6 suchas break hold, but I understand why it's there given some characters have stun games and mixup potential that means, you could possibly never guess right.
That's exactly it. There are only a few characters like Eliot and Kasumi that were really designed around that formula (hell its possible for Eliot to do three close hits in a single string, two of those being guaranteed), but then you have Hayate and Momiji who suffer by not having good bounds (and her fatal stun needing to be BT). TN never truly thought it through for each character and it just feels lazily tacked on for others.
For some reason they made some characters work well with walls and others were literally crippled by them. As mentioned, Eliot, Kasumi and Hayabusa basically had guaranteed high damage, the moment you were close to a wall.
Hayabusa's example is even more egregious cause the strat is to close hit ONCE into the wall, use his bound that is probably one of the best crushes in the game too or at least was, and then close hit again.
However, I don't think close hits mean much anymore. Wasn't the damage nerfed on those?
Surprisingly the most damaging thing in the game is if you have an on hit throw, like Tina's 7KT or Rachel's 8PT. For some reason those absolutely hurt lol.
Pretty much.
I would have much rather have DOA5LR modded but the tools don't exist for that and there are no lobbies (unless there was an alternate way to set it up). DOA5 just has a lot lower input delay than DOA6 on PC.
And the stages are terrible in 6. At least with 5 you had good stages from DOA3 lol.
I mean I understand against characters like Helena you get sucked into their vortex, but at the same time if you are stunned, you should be guessing without a guaranteed way out of it. The issue IMO is the attacker has to be the one to guess after getting the opponent stunned. The mindgames around the stun system just create a really weird offense where its like walking on eggshells instead of being decisive. Granted some characters suffer more than others here.
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