Final Fantasy Thread

Jadeinchains

Well-Known Member
I swear I must be the only fan of the XIII trilogy that really didn't like Caius... :/ I can see him getting in though on default of him being the obvious choice for XIII. And Lulu? I'd love for her to get in but I wouldn't expect them to add her. I hope she does though! Same with Paine, And yes! XV needs Aranea for sure. And lol is Serah just not being included despite being a protagonist of a game? But yeah there's still quite a few characters I hope to see.
Like Fran.
 

Nikotsumi

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm not able to play the beta either, though I'm looking forward to the release date. There's only a few things I'm concerned about the game, like the 3v3, the HUD, and not being able to customize the (very limited) moveset. oh Yuna (summoner) not being in the game yet.
Having issues with Brave attacks being X, try to followup and wonder why I'm jumping everywhere.
What the hell.... the X and O buttons are inverted? I certainly wouldn't be able to play like this lol.
And lol is Serah just not being included despite being a protagonist of a game? But yeah there's still quite a few characters I hope to see.
Like Fran.
Well, Noel is the protagonist of XIII-2 as well, or at least I'd say he is, though she would be a better choice gameplay-wise, even if I don't really see them adding anyone from the sequels.
And if you think about it, Fran would have had better chances if they had picked Balthier in Vaan's place, I know he's the actual protagonist, but the fact that he got in the game instead of Balthier/Ashe (or even Basch) still triggers me.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Here is a quick break down of Cecil starting with a quick character overview.

Cecil is categorized as a Vanguard type character. He isn't the fastest but he is capable of dealing high damage (some of the highest in this beta, upwards 500 points in some attacks) and forcing opponents in close spaces to eat Brave or HP attacks depending on his form. Cecil is a combination of a Dark Knight and Paladin as he has been in the past Dissidia games as well as in Final Fantasy 4. In this game you are able to choose which form he starts in when you are selecting him as a character. He is a difficult character to play due to the nature of his forms and when changing to another form you should be aware of what pros and cons you are taking up.

As a Paladin Cecil excels in air combat. He is quicker while running and dashing and has wallrushes and floor rushes on all his attacks based on how high he is when attacking his target. He only has one ground attack in this form and it isn't particularly powerful.
As a Dark Knight Cecil commands a large space on the ground and is extremely powerful here. He is weak in the air (only one brave attack) but that attack has a very fast startup and wall rushes.

His Unique Skill is Job Change. This skill takes 30 seconds to charge up and when initiated will change Cecil into his opposite Job (Paladin into Dark Knight and Dark Knight into Paladin). While changing jobs Cecil is immune to all forms of Damage and Crowd Control, this can be used to avoid Attacks, summons, or even status effects. He seems to retain invincibility for abot a second after changing so he is able to attack right out of the change which can catch opponents by surprise. For the next 10 seconds Cecil deals higher damage and some HP attacks gain extra abilities.

Luminous Sphere is Cecil's HP attack while in Paladin form. It is a straight shot with mid range but is very quick, traveling it's max distance very quickly. While powered up by Job Change it has slight tracking and slightly better verticality. There honestly isn't much to talk about right now, read below for more.

Tenebrous Blast is his HP attack as a Dark Knight. It is slow, has a much larger hitbox, but tracks the opponent until it either hits terrain and detonates, hits and opponent and detonates, or reaches the end of its travel distance and detonates. (Note that both HP versions will detonate at the end of their travel distance regardless). When initially cast it has the same travel speed at Luminous Sphere but only at a close rage (it is a good wall rush followup but only at a very close range). Tenebrous Blast lasts a very long amount of time, I've seen it last up to 15 seconds before detonating, which is a very long time. It has a very large explosion area. Probably the most important thing to know about it is that Tenebrous Blast will stay active even if Cecil changes to Paladin form and even if he uses Luminous Sphere. Two HP attacks coming at you from the same target is a HUGE thing, that's a ton of pressure to make them panic.

Both HP attacks can deal Brave Damage before exploding and dealing HP damage. It deals 240 Brv damage and 456 while Job Change effects are active.

Holy Flame and Dark Flame are his other HP attack options in this beta.
Holy Flame creates an explosive area that deals HP Damage after a delay. It has a medium Range and covers a wide area. When successfully hitting an enemy Cecil will gain HP (about 20% of total health). The only iffy thing with this HP attack is that the attack doesn't seem to become active until about a half second into it's explosion animation and it is very easily escaped.

Dark Flame is very much like it's old iteration. A pillar will shoot out from Cecil and track to an opponent at a fairly close range. It costs 400HP to use in this beta, no matter if it hits or not. The HP reduction occurs as soon as the pillars become active, about a half second after starting casting it.

Both HP attacks are capable of hitting multiple opponents and gain no extra effects while under Job Change.

A note about both HP sets. These are not guaranteed wall rush followups. The startups are too slow but there are ways to greatly increase the likelihood of connecting with each one from a wall rush (almost strictly in Dark Knight form though).

Dark Knight's standard X string has a huge hitbox, even hitting enemies just overhead of him. It wall rushes and is extremely quick. Pretty minimal movement during the whole attack.

His forward X is a new form of his Dark Lance. Instead of physically throwing a spear he now just shoots it out of his sword. Deals high damage in a single hit and has a medium range (also has an absolutely enormous hitbox). Slight vertical tracking.

His back X is more of a utility attack rather than an outright attack. You create a large dark area that will detonate after a time. The amount of damage it deals and how long it lasts will increase based on how long the attack is charged. This attack does have a vacuum effect, making it perfect to trap someone and hit them with an HP attack. The weakness of this attack is that you have to charge it (you can just tap it) to make it effective and opponents can just dash out of it almost instantly. The absorption effect is too strong to just run out of it.
This is your big pressure tool outside of Tenebrous Blast and sets you up for successful Tenebrous Blast hits after close range wallrushes. Wall rush, Back X (any charge really) Tenebrous Blast in that order and your opponent is guaranteed to panic. You've just created an enormous are of "fuck you" they have to deal with and this area is a monster to deal with. The absorbtion of Back X prevents them from falling or dodging away, they are forced to dash and they have to dash in a direction away from you as Tenebrous Blast comes from you. In a head on wall rush you are damn near guaranteed a hit.

His Dash X is his old Gravity Ball. When he hits it will send the opponent to the ground and floor rush them. Little tracking.

His air X is a very fast three hit string. Covers small area but wall rushes.

Paladin excels in the air.

Grounded X is a quickly two hitting string that floor rushes the opponent in open space and can wall rush when close to a wall. In open space it knocks them VERY far away from you, you won't hit with shit at this kind of range.

Air X is his old Sacred Wings but with a better visual on the second portion of the attack. Floor rushes in front of Cecil but can wall rush when very close to a wall.

Air Up X will make Cecil charge upwards and the second part of the string will send the opponent downwards. Wall rushes and can floor rush.

Air Back X will send Cecil attacking downwards and knock the opponent upwards. Wallrushes.

His dash X is his old Searchlight. This extends to its max distance and will fire three light attacks. These will not stun but deal a good amount of damage. Can confirm it has no link bug in this game.

In the full game Cecil will have his old Paladin Force and Soul Eater HP attacks which will allow him to change Job by using his HP attacks (Paladin Force forces you to chnag to Paladin and Soul Eater forces you to go to Dark Knight). I don't know offhand whether or not you have access to both or just one, as of right now I would say Paladin force is the superior of the two due to having a better range. These can be guaranteed wallrush finishers.

Right now Dark Knigth has the better damage options but Paladin meets the "air game"that the game is heavily reliant on. I recommend starting in Dark Knight form simply to immediately apply pressure with Tenebrous Blast and Job change as needed. Dark Knight feels more powerful right now because action is a lot closer to the ground than it was in past games (where almost all you would do is attack from the air).
 
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DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Well, I'm not able to play the beta either, though I'm looking forward to the release date. There's only a few things I'm concerned about the game, like the 3v3, the HUD, and not being able to customize the (very limited) moveset. oh Yuna (summoner) not being in the game yet.

What the hell.... the X and O buttons are inverted? I certainly wouldn't be able to play like this lol.

Well, Noel is the protagonist of XIII-2 as well, or at least I'd say he is, though she would be a better choice gameplay-wise, even if I don't really see them adding anyone from the sequels.
And if you think about it, Fran would have had better chances if they had picked Balthier in Vaan's place, I know he's the actual protagonist, but the fact that he got in the game instead of Balthier/Ashe (or even Basch) still triggers me.

Balthier is definitely more popular than Vaan lol. The man even has fan girls. He has cosplayer girls cosplaying as him. He's still requested so it might be tough on Jadeinchains for Fran, but the reason why Vaan makes the cut is because he's the main character of the series and the main representative. On the other hand, multiple representatives from a single game is also difficult if other representatives from other games are taking spots. In a fair note, it makes sense really. There are definitely characters I wouldn't get hopes up too much.
 
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XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
What the hell.... the X and O buttons are inverted? I certainly wouldn't be able to play like this lol.
In the previous games O was the Brave Attacks and X was jump. Thousands of hours playing will engrave that into you like you wouldn't believe.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I was also bamboozled by the controls. Particularly guarding is much more different (practically Super Smash Bros guarding mechanic).
 

Project Bokuho

Lady Helena's Pet
Premium Donor
Light Chan <3
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yeytfwq
*hugs*

Tifa, Aranea, Seven, Lulu
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Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Cecil's Dark/Holy Flame is legit.

Overall it's a limited range HP attack but in Paladin form it appears under your target (and heals Cecil on hit, I see it's supposed to heal allies but I guess they need to be standing in the aoe?), in Dark Knight form it acts like it's old self and shoots to the target from Cecil but costs HP to use.

Luminous Blast is alright, Dark Blast I would argue is better because it tracks better (but is slower) and has a huge hitbox.
If you thought those were great, Soul Eater was the best of them all. It's unreal how fast that HP attack comes out (enough to guarantee a follow up from most wall rush attempts with ease), much less blows up anybody that gets near Cecil when it hits.

Unfortunately in this beta, I discovered that while your character rank can go up, your character level cannot. Which means you can't unlock half of the dad-gummed unlockable HP attacks in this build!
 

Tyaren

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Ardyn won (once again, since he practically also won in the game, lol)! :D

Remember the survey they patched into FFXV at one point asking what additional content players would prefer for FFXV or the extended FFXV universe? On an event in Cologne during Gamescom...

tumblr_ov8zssT0Pm1sq04mao1_1280.jpg


...Square Enix revealed:

"It was Ardyn´s backstory that the majority voted for - so we clearly got the message he´s the person fans want to know more about. We´re not sure as of yet how we´ll do it though - it´s a lot of story, and telling a character´s story is always the most difficult and detailed part of a game. So, we don´t know yet whether we´ll make it another game, no dlc though, it would be a full game, or a movie, comic etc. We really want to tell his story though. Second in the survey was Luna´s story by the way."

Thanks to everyone who voted for Ardyn too. :) And I'm so sorry no one but a few cared for that dragoon woman. :( What was her name again? XD
@Project Bokuho @UpSideDownGRUNT
 
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Chapstick

Well-Known Member
Ardyn won (once again, since he practically also won in the game, lol)! :D

Remember the survey they patched into FFXV at one point asking what additional content players would prefer for FFXV or the extended FFXV universe? On an event in Cologne during Gamescom...

tumblr_ov8zssT0Pm1sq04mao1_1280.jpg


...Square Enix revealed:

"It was Ardyn´s backstory that the majority voted for - so we clearly got the message he´s the person fans want to know more about. We´re not sure as of yet how we´ll do it though - it´s a lot of story, and telling a character´s story is always the most difficult and detailed part of a game. So, we don´t know yet whether we´ll make it another game, no dlc though, it would be a full game, or a movie, comic etc. We really want to tell his story though. Second in the survey was Luna´s story by the way."

Thanks to everyone who voted for Ardyn too. :) And I'm so sorry no one but a few cared for that dragoon woman. :( What was her name again? XD
@Project Bokuho @UpSideDownGRUNT
"We'll make it another full game, movie, or comic"

tumblr_mb50ryBOSF1qzl1oeo1_400.jpg


Comic seems most likely after all the money they blew on this game and its advertising...but... isn't this one of the problems people had with XV to begin with? Too much lore is outside of the game
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
@Awesmic @DestructionBomb Using Cecil I almost exclusively am using Dark Knight and his Tenebrous Blast/Luminous Sphere HP set. The Paladin is good but this game's verticality is so low that air control and being way above an opponent is just not nearly as powerful as it used to be. Yeah characters like Cloud are a monster from above with his Braver attack but the limit to how high characters can go just keeps them on the ground more than anything. I'm using Job Change pretty much as a "Get out of Jail" card and playing an aggressive air game when Paladin. As it is, though, Dark Knight just seems to be the superior Job right now (or at least until we get access to his job changing attacks). Paladin has good air control (he can hit on all height levels with his dives and ascents) but Paladin's range is bad, if you whiff an attack he has huge recovery, Paladin feels like you should use it based more on if you are currently fighting an assassin or not. Dark Knight just seems to fit all aspects you need.
Thoughts?

A general note, IMO dash gauges fill up too soon and too quickly after depleting them. There should be a three second delay before refilling instead of only 1/2 second and should refill over two or three seconds. Tidus relies on dashing and he is extremely hard to hit because of how the gauges refill.

As to Ardyn winning, if it won't be DLC or free content to the game then it's going to more than likely be a comic. That's the cheapest option.
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
I like how Lightning can switch between Ravager and Commando so you can either play somewhat ranged or up close and personal.

Both her HP attacks are pretty intense too, Critical Strike lunges pretty far and I think Raging Gale seems to track a pretty good bit and of course Army of One is a good skill for racking up Bravery.

And yeah, I feel dash needs to be balanced a bit, it refills almost instantly and is quite slow(that's a common complaint I hear actually)
 

deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
For this game to have Team NINJA's logo on it makes my heart sing with great joy. Cross-Slash is amazing, I can't remember if it was in the first game or not, but I'm dominating with Cloud. vgmkyle is my psn if you wan... oh wait, no party options.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Dear God Clouds hitboxes are enormous.

Update on Dark Lance: It is capable of passing through HP attacks.

Not having any invincibility in Dodges is extremely irritating.
 
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Project Bokuho

Lady Helena's Pet
Premium Donor
Ardyn won (once again, since he practically also won in the game, lol)! :D

Remember the survey they patched into FFXV at one point asking what additional content players would prefer for FFXV or the extended FFXV universe? On an event in Cologne during Gamescom...

tumblr_ov8zssT0Pm1sq04mao1_1280.jpg


...Square Enix revealed:

"It was Ardyn´s backstory that the majority voted for - so we clearly got the message he´s the person fans want to know more about. We´re not sure as of yet how we´ll do it though - it´s a lot of story, and telling a character´s story is always the most difficult and detailed part of a game. So, we don´t know yet whether we´ll make it another game, no dlc though, it would be a full game, or a movie, comic etc. We really want to tell his story though. Second in the survey was Luna´s story by the way."

Thanks to everyone who voted for Ardyn too. :) And I'm so sorry no one but a few cared for that dragoon woman. :( What was her name again? XD
@Project Bokuho @UpSideDownGRUNT
Ardyn who? Never really cared about him/her much l0l
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Feel you there. What's interesting is that the JPN players wanted to have no invincibility for dodging on this Dissidia (from what I heard).
Almost defeats the purpose. If you outplay someone by dodging at the right moment to get your own attacks in you should be rewarded. The thing that made me finally realize this was that I got backed into a corner (double teamed, but these guys noticed I got both initial kills so they were just trying to take me out so they at least were doing it right) and a Squall used his grounded Fated Circle. I dodged to the side (thankfully the timing hasn't changed for that attack) and got hit mid dodge which really threw me into a fit of rage. Dodging shouldn't be that bad, if used right you should be able to pass through almost anything unless the attack stays active long enough because you outplayed that particular situation.

Some of these feature changes just makes me want to use them less.

Blocking a string forces you to block the entire string (its a damn forced block ffs) and there are no repercussions for the player being blocked aside from not gaining Brave. I'm definitely playing super aggressive to avoid having to block which in the previous games would be suicide because I see this block system and high risk/low reward. ExDeath, Jecht, and WoL may be the only characters that you don't need to be stupid aggressive against to avoid being attacked.

Dodging I only use for long range stuff any more because melee hitboxes are huge in this game and you are better off trying to dash away or jumping. Honestly if you aren't dashing long ranged stuff you are doing it wrong, there are no modifiers so far to increase Brave when you successfully dodge in this game.

Just a PSA btw: The higher your Bravery the more Brave damage you will take (and the higher your opponent's Bravery, the more Brave Damage they will take). You risk getting broken easier so you have to weigh risk/reward with dealing HP dfamage over time or a lot of HP damage at once. This explains why I was doing damage in the thousands when my opponents had 4000 or more Brave.
 
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