Some explanation about Marie for those of you unaware, even the OP of this thread.
Marie is i10/i12/i14, this is good speed.
She also has an i12 neutral K that is safe at -3 alone and has push back on block, with a delayable follow up (this is a really strong neutral tool). KK itself grants a sitdown and will always guarantee a 6P follow up. 6K2K and 2H+K grant a stun in threshold and counter hit, with 6P always hitting (be wary of holds) players who do not stagger escape it's +14 in stun.
She's very safe, a lot of strikes either leave her at -3 to -7 at best. Her damage is very solid universally (juggles, holds, throws, etc). She has two throws that eliminate wake up kicks completely by walls, a third if you include her offensive hold. They are H+P, 6H+P and 66H+P. Think about the mix up potential after that.
Her back turned OH and 64P mid punch hold can grant practically the same crazy mix up. Really, Marie's BT OH is incredible and SHOULD be abused as often as possible, it's one of her best strengths. People are using her rolls incorrectly, it's meant for set ups, evasion and a bit of whiff punishment, preferrably 3H+K. Her side hop (8P+K/2P+K) is also a godsend, it gets around everything if you seriously pay attention to open/close stance and positioning on wake up kicks. It's hurtbox is like a rectangle, and no other character in this game has anything close to this, period.
It gets around tracking because it's not a side step, it's a character specific movement. You time your hop well, you get a free BT OH and players are going for a ride.
Marie also has her Rondo sabaki, which helps her deal with characters faster than her for high and mid punches (especially with characters that are so reliant on them). That guarantees follow ups on well timed sabakis, you can even score access to an immediate critical burst on hi counter after Rondo P or K. The Rondo alone helps a lot against characters like genfu, Kasumi, Christie, Akira, Sarah, Pai, Jacky, Zack and Jannlee (study your match ups).
8P4, 8PP4, PP6P4, 6P4, PP6K4, 6K4, 1PP4, 2P+K/8P+K, 9K4 all grant access to Rondo and back turned stance.
This character's CQC (close quarters combat) is nothing to laugh at. She's designed to control the neutral game up close, and even just a little bit mid range (a little). She is not well-suited to fight at range, every character has a flaw somewhere.
However, it doesn't imply she is totally lacking. Let's look at what Marie has for whiff punishment;
- 4K is an i16 frame mid kick that stuns for +28 on normal hit.
- 4P is an i16 frame mid punch that is critical hit and is +6 on normal hit (+25 on counter hit), with that same 4K as a follow up. That critical hit from 4P implies the follow up must be held on hit confirm.
- 66K has good range to whiff punish strikes mid range for a +26 stun on normal hit and gives a crumple stun on counter hit and threshold. Also hops over lows.
-236P has very good range to whiff punish at it's hittable ranges. So does P+K, which hops over lows.
- 3H+K has good mid range for whiff punishment at it's hittable ranges. And that stun gets you in, which is the point anyway.
For range pokes;
- 2P has decent range for a low.
- 3PK is an i14 frame mid punch with a high follow up that is safe at -3 (which is essentially her neutral K).
- 3K is an i14 frame kick and is semi-safe at -6 (can be neutral thrown in CQC range), with a stun of +24 on counter hit.
- 9K is an i15 frame high kick with a solid mix up on hit. +35 stun on normal hit, with a mid kick follow up that's +26, both are very good. Also semi-safe at -7. 9K4 even leaves her in back turned stance for BTOH and strike mix up.
- 6PP can even be used as a short ranged poke and is safe at -5, also gets you in.
- 6PK does the same thing as 6PP and is semi-safe at -6.
- Neutral K is i12 frames and is solid for a short ranged poke, and incredibly safe at -3 with a delayable follow up (although punishable on block).
Marie Rose is a little similar to that of Ayane. In that she has ways to make you respond so she can do exactly what she's really trying to do. Which is capitalizing on your mistakes and taking advantage of your button presses she's making you press.
This character has amazing damage, amazing Korean Back Dash (KBD), some very solid tools, solid neutral strike speed, amazing wall game (that I didn't even explain), i12 frame short ranged strikes at all 3 height levels, easy access to a limbo stun (H+K) and ways to keep momentum up in her favor. She struggles fighting at range, characters like Ayane and Momiji can bring a world of hurt fairly easily because Marie's tools are not that big of a deal to them.
It's way too early to start saying a character that's barely been out only a few months needs all of these buffs, lol. If anything, her 6KK should be safe somewhere around -6 and that's basically it. The character is fine, she's doing exactly what she needs to do and can't do anything until she hits you (like most characters anyway).
I stopped playing this character weeks after she was released and Requiem and I already see a lot of what I said in her, even more. She's not going to be the best character, but she's going to be very solid. People have to sit down and use that training mode a lot more. It's an amazing tool in this game and you'd be surprised at what you can stumble upon when you look hard enough.
