Ah. And then counter damage...

But would a free cancel on that particular move be quick enough for a free grab?

And no, I'm not familiar with Astaroth's movelist. Let alone SCV since my character had been stripped. (Yun Seong) I'll get it on a price drop. Heard it wasn't worth $60.

$30 + shipping through Toys R Us via Ebay. No excuses now. =P

Iiking the sidestep at 1:14

Well in DOAD if you low counter you're pretty much stuck in that position long enough for someone with good reactions to grab you. Those Astaroth moves are the exact same input/animation as in 4 ^.^

In VF5 if you do a safe move you can crouch dash and, hold guard afterwards allowing you to dodge grabs and, block mids at the same time. SCV you can stand blocking and, tap up allowing you to block mids/highs and, jump over the start up of lows (you can also input A/B in case your opponent trys to throw you while blocking).

So to eliminate guessing between mid, lows and grabs in DOA a fuzzy guarding technique wouldn't be a bad idea. Other fighters implement them.

If you're going to break down a video, why are you breaking down outdated footage and not the Akira trailer?

1AA and 1AB is not a mixup. After the 1A, you have plenty of time to see the next option and react accordingly. In fact, most good players can see the 1A coming.

You heard wrong.

^This. Throws in SC are a 50/50, but they're 17 frames on the average, which is enough time to allow you to duck on reaction. You can also buffer a throw break into your block.

I may consider getting it now xD

Well I guess the point has been proven again that no fighting game is void of guessing situations? That move given to Hayabusa just shows they're picking favorites, so to speak. Just throwin' him in top tier?

Look at UMVC3 though... but I guess you depend on teams in that game.
(Although, I consider Wesker and Dante One Men armies.)

It seems like you could just side step, since its in the game now and that move on the first part doesn't seem to recover that fast still on free cancel. I never really considered high and low moves mix up in DOA much though since most well trained players can see the free cancel and/or delay and react accordingly.

MASTER

Matter of opinion, I suppose.

I've been watching VF5:FS fights on YouTube lately, thinking I really should get on the bandwagon. Those grabs look fast.

Why would i break down a video, that had already been broken down (here) already? o__O. (I have considered it still but seeing it already broken down didnt seem that it was as necessary)

MASTER

Hmm, it only took me 3 yrs to find out DOA "has" Fuzzy Guarding.. I wish I could have stumbled across this sooner. Then again, "oh well I guess."

Honestly mate, I hate UMVC3 lol. As far as DOA; I doubt they're picking favorites. I mean.... It's a 4 character demo o.0?.

Part4


MASTER

I can't stand UMVC3 or MVC3 lol I switched to MK as soon as it came out.

Good shit Master, keep em coming

I like Hayate's new fighting stance, looks pretty neat.

I'm used to fuzzying in VF and DOA, and throws are so much slower in SC I sometimes duck, then stand up and get thrown! I also don't like how throws in SC beat attacks (Offensive Holds), but the escapability helps.

There's a difference between a fighting game having a situation that requires a guess, and DOA where guessing is often the best strategy.

I don't know. Maybe for the same reason you're breaking down DOA 4.2 trailers... so your fans can hear you talk for an hour?

They're not offensive holds. They only beat attacks if the frames roll that way. Throws work like a 17-frame, high attack. If a 17-frame attack would connect, so will the throw in this instance. But if a 17-frame, high attack would get interrupted, a throw will too.

What dictates a fighter from being limited to guessing, rather than actual strategy?
A move is too fast to see coming? Incapable of possible escape?
That's not the game's fault if there is ability. A counter in DOA does come out in 0 frames.

Maybe its a level of expertise that frustrates an individual. (such as yourself, perhaps? I don't know)

Let's look at SC5 compared to DOA4.

In DOA4 your best option on defense is almost always to guess a counter. If you don't counter out of stun you're going to eat a lot of damage, so since you're basically forced to counter, you're going to guess which counter to use so you can hopefully get damage/evade an attack. On offense, you're forced to guess what counter the opponent will use so you can hopefully avoid it, or simply guess that a counter will come and try to throw it on reaction.

In SC5, you guess which throw to break, but you never have to guess if a throw is coming. This is a guess based on player preference and not forced. You can duck throws on reaction or use an attack that crushes quickly. In both instances, you don't have to guess at all.

Another SC5 example is that I can run my offense completely and never have to guess anything. I can play strictly by the frames if I want to. I don't have to guess to win, and when I lose I don't feel as though I lost because I guessed wrong.

Thanks for explaining that to me.

But I still think the whole guess thing is a real bash based off preference. The stun threshold would limit how many times you can be hit before you fall. There's only a certain amount of moves that will start a juggle/launch with each character. They usually have frames you can see coming. Not many each time, but its certainly not 0. That takes getting to know your opponent just like any other fighter.

It seems the frustration of the game carries over from Ninja Gaiden. That difficulty. That's why that game isn't popular mainstream as well.

Isn't it a bit misleading to make a general statement on defense and then describe a situation that's specifically after being hit in DOA, then talk about throw breaks in SC5?

Defense is more varied than the moment you get hit, an if you're going to talk about getting hit, lets put throws to one side.

In DOA, including 4, there are tons of defensive options but if you want to talk about what happens after you get hit, and that alone, then that's fine. For good or ill, DOA has more options here than most games; Counter, Slow Escape (Struggle), then if you escape/recover before the next hit you go back to the myriad options - guard, spacing, ducking, attacking first etc.

In SC you just get hit (that may be considered better) by true combos and you can air control if juggled, or standup or roll on the ground.

Pretty similar. You can even stand up and GI if taking wakeup pressure (Nightmare can wakeup Super which has GI built in... crazy).

I think the overall picture of defensive options (usually the stuff you do before being hit or while under pressure of being hit) is quite varied in either case, but what you're talking about is the reliability of the attacker's options and fair enough.

Just clearing up what is being parceled out of the discussion.