DOA: Flaws and Tournament Viability

Yes because video games are the same as real life right? JR you're more than welcome to go back and play DoA4 if you're too scared to play a fighting game with real options but the rest of us will keep pushing for a better fighting game that can actually be played competitively.

Then go away lol

Don't be part of the problem if you don't plan being part of the solution.

Wait a minute. I never once saw one juggle from that MMA match. Don't they know juggles are guaranteed damage? If I walked into that ring, they wouldn't even stand a chance against me.

On a serious note, I love how realistic DOA is in it's approach to martial arts. Too bad that doesn't equate to awesome game for everyone.

So what you are saying is that nothing new is going on with you then?

If you don't intend on supporting the game, then why even bother logging onto these forums? Just to complain about what you don't like?

No offense, but if only people who actually were going to events for this game were on this site, there'd only be about a handful >_>.

There's over 600 members on this site.

I love how people who don't travel or even play the game are like "Whatever they not doing what I say so I'm not gonna support them. . . ."

You weren't supporting when the game was bad and you THOUGHT it was good to support it. You can't act like you supported the game when in reality this isn't anything new because you weren't there to begin with so trust me when I tell you that your non supporting the game (or any game for that matter) won't be a big change for you x_x

So then what are you doing here? Your just going to bitch about the game no matter what and not even support it? Fuck outta here with that shit.

That's precisely the approach we need to take. Be positive, but pragmatic. Plan to support the game at events. Just going to events will do a lot for your development as a player and enjoyment of fighting games generally.

If you find you are not enjoying the game, then go on to other games or stop. But if you are on this site and you plan to discuss competitive DOA in any way shape or form, ultimately, you need to think about backing that up by PARTICIPATING - at least at the start. We have to band together as a community to give the game its chance.

If you are already convinced it's not worth it, then no more needs to be said, you can already move on and go elsewhere.

I can't yet say if I'll be traveling for DOA5. Even with the nice additions we got at E3, it's still a very unsafe and guess-heavy game. Those are two things that I very much dislike in my competitive fighters, and two things that I don't have to worry about in Tekken, VF or SC.

I like DOA. I want to see it succeed and be featured at many different majors throughout the US. However, if the final game is not what I would consider a competitive fighter, I can't support it. I'm doing all that I can at the moment to convey this to Team Ninja, and will continue to do so until I'm told they're no longer working on the title. But I won't blindly support something that I don't feel is competitive, especially after I've provided detailed lists on how to make minor changes to create a competitive DOA.

At this point, counterholds in stun, string delay and free-canceling aren't going anywhere. I'm okay with that, but at the very least:

- 90% of the attacks in the game cannot be unsafe like we saw at E3. Characters need quality safe options. A couple of guard breaks and a safe PP string is just not enough.

- Characters need to be safer, especially characters that have stance cancels. Sarah cancels into Flamingo with advantage on block most of the time. Rig needs to have similar cancels. If Helena makes it into the game, she needs to be able to cancel into BT and BKO safely. If Brad makes it in he needs safe stance transitions. You can't block out of these stances, so give me a reason to at least try to attack. If you can throw me as soon as I cancel into the stance, what's the point?

Basically, as long as the characters get more safe attacks (maybe 10-15% more), I will be the first person to ask why people aren't traveling. I'll be the first person to ask tournament organizers why they aren't including DOA5. I will make sure DOA5 is included at any events I run, and I'll be the first person to raise my voice if DOA5 isn't included in Evo 2013.

Too scared? Jackass i play other fighting games and all of the ideas you guys are putting forth amount to changing the game into Tekken.

More safe = Poking each other with safe moves until someone whiffs and goes for the juggle ride because

No counters in stun = Free juggles, which are really easy to get because.

Most everything in DOA puts you into a stun anyway.

Why don't you guys go play something else? VF5FS is a great game - DOA isn't the same game - so go play that and stop trying to turn DOA into something its not.

DOA is closest video game facsimile to an actual sporting event - DOA is MMA, DOA is NBA, DOA is NFL.

Tekken is connect four, VF5 is checkers, SC5 is garbage.

Havik... next time, don't bring my name up in discussions like this.

My aim is to be accepted by more people here, not hated. No offense, but you're not making this easy.

Well, not ALL of the changes will turn it into Tekken, but I agree to an extent. Eventually, if some people got what they desired, DOA would just be the same as the other fighters just with different skins and different fighting styles.

Trying to turn it to something its not!? I'm so sorry that DoA4 is the only DoA you have ever played and that you enjoy it. Like I said, you're more than welcome to continue playing that POS game but most of us are trying to get DoA to go back to its roots. The majority of the stuff that we have asked for were all in previous DoA games.

You know whats funny? You think safe attacks = poking but yet DoA3.1 had all kinds of frame advantage and people were 10x more aggressive in that game than any match ever played in DoA4. Having every single attack being minus on block is just straight up stupid.

You want to bring real life into it? How about this? If I punched you in the face you think I'm going to sit there for a few seconds and let you shake it off? Hell no I'm going to keep punching you in the face. Playing DoA4 is like saying "hey I punched you but I'm real nice and going to sit here and let you get a turn in"

I'm sorry that you think that but it's just not true. The stun system and defensive holds alone completely change how DoA is played compared to other fighters. You guys act like we want to remove that stuff completely... Fighting games need to have logic. Without logic you have DoA4...a game based completely on being random.

Sorry man. I'll stay out of the way then.

I like your solutions and I'm totally with you, but I can't leave the comment on SC unchallenged. There is SO much guessing in that game and it's of the same type as in VF - high/low, but the quality of the mind game is so much lower because of the ambiguous animation and the stupid exceptions to the high/low/mid standards (fast evading launching mids, messed up hitboxes) - throw in fast unblockables and a wakeup game with such poor options for the defender, but to just guess... I like the game enough but it is not a game where you do not guess!

Thankfully its not so bad as marvel with a 4 way guess to start your round before combo and character death, but it definitely has its share of illogical guessing games.

VF I'll grant you - you still have to guess on hit level/evade/throw here and there but you need to work in and build on your openings, so the guessing is not so pronounced. Honestly, DOA is doing ok compared to SC, but still has some climbing to VF. I realise this may be a controversial statement, so we can further discuss in another thread and not derail if you like

Wow. I laughed out loud at this.

VF5 is checkers?

hahahahahahaha

You can compare this to real life when people in real life can teleport, fall from story-high buildings and get up and fight, should firebals, are made from gelatanous goop, or can keep somebody suspended in the air with jabs.

FYI: There are already UFC games, so I imagine those would be closer to what you're suggesting DoA is.

Damn, you beat me to it. I was just about to post the exact same thing!

There is guessing in every fighting game but the guessing STOPS once the hit has been landed. In DoA the guessing continues for a much longer time than usual. Usually there are 2-3 chances for the defender (which I'm sure they put in so people don't feel so overwhelmed even if they are playing a much better player). In another fighter if I am better than you and know the match up well there is nothing you can do. In DoA even IF I know the match up (im speaking strictly within 4's realm) you still can always just guess right.

In other fighters once I touch you I combo > get a knockdown > work Oki and chances are you can't defend it so you lose. Or I get a hit but I'm at such advantage for you to even CONSIDER hitting the button will quickly end the round and it just kind circles that situation over and over.

In VF once I hit you the only guess you have is dependent on how much advantage I have is what your options are. In DoA whether I hit you or not I'm at disadvantage because of the hold. In no other game do you get such a lenient tool to help you out of being CH lol. Take note that CH set ups in other games usually equal GG and chances are you got like double the damage as well as Oki. In DoA when you get that CH the defender gets 1-3 chances to get out of the situation. . . .it just depends on the damage you want to risk it for.