Dead Or Alive 5 E3 Build Experience

[Skilletor]

Master posts on his page thing instead of any thread I see:

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I'm going to make a thread here so it doesn't get talked about in Bryan's thread like it currently is. This way people can continue to ask him questions and stay on topic.

Dead Or Alive 5 E3 Build Experience​

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Hello everyone it seems like things have calmed down since E3 and the release of the new Dead or Alive 5 Character trailer that shows Rig. Now that I have some time to sit down for a few minutes I want to discuss my experience with the E3 DOA5 build.

My time was rather limited with the new build but I was able to notice some interesting changes. With that said I will be discussing the main topics that were talked about at the event first.

Critical Burst is something new to the game of Dead Or Alive but something that was somewhat implemented in DOADimensions. Critical burst is a move that puts you in a state that makes you completely vulnerable to any attack including Powerblows. This attack is usually, but not always, a mid attack and right now the majority of the cast has one critical burst move...

Full article here

I plan to answer any questions, to the best of my knowledge, that you all may have about the game. I've seen a few posts from players that may have misunderstood a few points that i made, but i will post later and explain a bit better when i have time.
MASTER

And he says within:

Critical burst is an interesting addition however it almost feels like an unnecessary addition to me. It plays against the core rules of DOA and that is repetitiveness. Players using the CB attack twice or any move for that matter is something DOA has always been against. You were punished in DOA for trying to abuse any move twice while having someone stun and CB goes against that rule. I would rather not allow for the shortcut of the CB attack being used twice since it is an unnecessary mechanic.

Another issue I have with the CB’s is that they force you to use one move only.So in one hand you have that the CB mechanic isn’t that necessary and in the other hand you are trying to make it work with the game but again it goes against DOA’s rules. CB can only be done with one move currently which caters to repetitive play, again. So the only option I can think of is to NOT allow the CB move to be used twice and add MORE CB attacks that are still 20frames or slower and hit at different hit levels.

Stun system still seems the same where not many moves stun on normal hit, which caters more to a poking game until someone Counter Hits somebody for a decent stun. I personally do not like that since DOA is known for granting real advantage through stuns and I believe they should add a few normal hit stuns with the exception of lows. This is one reason why hitomi is good since her low sweep is fast, grants her advantage and gives her good pressure while other characters sweep put them to far away from them or simply do not stun at all.

I don't want to play the DoA where the devs listen to this guy. Find it amusing that he points out repetition being the death knell in DoA when his effective Hayabusa play is the very definition of the term.

English nerd rage, but for an article this long, you should really have somebody look at and edit for clarity. The grammar and punctuation is pretty bad.

 

[Awesmic]

So that's why he didn't make a topic about this here. He knew you guys would snap at him.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Right. More than one person has "snap"ped at him?

Anyways,
Personally I have to say that I've never been playing the stun game thinking "okay, well it's obvious he won't do the same move twice". So I don't think the "It breaks the rules by allowing you to do the move twice, once to initiate the stun and the next to end it" card is that important. I mean, Jann Lee and Ein players certainly had no issue with stunning someone with or and then performing the same move to receive a short launch with quick juggle.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Right. More than one person has "snap"ped at him?

Anyways,
Personally I have to say that I've never been playing the stun game thinking "okay, well it's obvious he won't do the same move twice". So I don't think the "It breaks the rules by allowing you to do the move twice, once to initiate the stun and the next to end it" card is that important. I mean, Jann Lee and Ein players certainly had no issue with stunning someone with or and then performing the same move to receive a short launch with quick juggle.

Yes, but theres a big difference between a short launch and a quick juggle and ... a POWERBLOW, which most of the time would lead to a dangerzone, which most of the time would guarantee a follow up juggle... Its too much. And too vulnerable to repetitiveness might I add..

 

[Skilletor]

So that's why he didn't make a topic about this here. He knew you guys would snap at him.

I don't know who this "you guys" is, since I don't know about the apparent history concerning Master and am expressing my own opinions.

And if he wants to talk about his opinion on these things that would have an impact on competitive play, what better place to do it than where the majority of the DoA community posts?

Right. More than one person has "snap"ped at him?

Anyways,
Personally I have to say that I've never been playing the stun game thinking "okay, well it's obvious he won't do the same move twice". So I don't think the "It breaks the rules by allowing you to do the move twice, once to initiate the stun and the next to end it" card is that important. I mean, Jann Lee and Ein players certainly had no issue with stunning someone with or and then performing the same move to receive a short launch with quick juggle.

Same. I tend to think more in terms of whether an attack would be mid/high/low. This is especially true of DoA4 where it didn't really matter what attack a person did since it was all about dat stun threshold.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Yes, but theres a big difference between a short launch and a quick juggle and ... a POWERBLOW, which most of the time would lead to a dangerzone, which most of the time would guarantee a follow up juggle... Its too much. And too vulnerable to repetitiveness might I add..

Yes, but that wasn't his complaint. According to his article, the focal complaint is the fact that you can repeat the same attack:

It plays against the core rules of DOA and that is repetitiveness. Players using the CB attack twice or any move for that matter is something DOA has always been against. You were punished in DOA for trying to abuse any move twice while having someone stun and CB goes against that rule. I would rather not allow for the shortcut of the CB attack being used twice since it is an unnecessary mechanic.

Nowhere in the article does he say his complaint is that you get a free power blow. Counter to your point, he even suggests next that there aren't enough critical burst attacks for a character and that it should be attributed to more than one attack:

CB can only be done with one move currently ... So the only option I can think of is ... add MORE CB attacks that are still 20frames or slower and hit at different hit levels.

 

[Allan Paris]

I have yet to see how CB's are bad in the game or 'unnecessary'. Is guaranteed damage that bad, lol. Something has to make up for the 7 years of, "Do whatever the fuck you want, whenever you want." The fear of fucking up needs to comeback in this game. So what if the moves are 'repetitive' that's what high level play is anyway. The same select few moves over and over again.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Honestly, I just hope that the end result plays out well, balanced ..and most importantly fun.

I don't want anything more.

I have faith in Shinbori's team.

 

[Chris Harris]

DoA is repetitive lol. Literally all of the same moves are used with every character everyone plays. CB's need to stay DoA's stun system doesn't even need to be brought up. They have done well and moved forward this far, doing what Manny is talking about is just undoing the good stuff they put in the game lol. They need to EXPAND on what they have in the game, not take away from it.

 

[DrDogg]

DrDogg, although Zack has more unsafe moves than Kasumi, he also has more safe moves than she does "she has like 2 true safe moves". I notice when Hatrify and HighGuy fights with him, they stick mainly with his safe moves which I remember like around 6.

Question: We know Zack is still unsafe, but from the amount of what you played in the E3 Build, does he still have more safe moves than Kasumi at this point?

They're about the same. Both have less than 10 safe attacks, and that's counting P and PP.

Master posts on his page thing instead of any thread I see:

http://www.tkplayers.com/Home/tabid.../248/Dead-Or-Alive-5-E3-Build-Experience.aspx

And he says within:

I don't want to play the DoA where the devs listen to this guy. Find it amusing that he points out repetition being the death knell in DoA when his effective Hayabusa play is the very definition of the term.

English nerd rage, but for an article this long, you should really have somebody look at and edit for clarity. The grammar and punctuation is pretty bad.

Yeah, the grammar is pretty bad, but he's not a writer. I don't expect him to have excellent grammar, so I'm okay with it. I do find it both petty and hilarious that he posts it on DOAW and TKP, but only as a status on here. The article is very much out of place on DOAW and no one goes to TKP.

Anyway, that article is full of incorrect statements and false facts. I'll break everything down if necessary, but it's like he didn't even play the same game everyone else at E3 did. I also like how he continues to claim he had limited time with the game even though he had 24/7 access to it for a vast majority of E3.

If we get Manny's version of DOA5, I guarantee I won't play. It's essentially DOA4.2 that he wants. Not surprising at all though after talking to him at E3...

 

[Chris Harris]

Don't worry Dr.Dogg no one will be playing it if it's DoA4.2

 

[Skilletor]

Yeah, the grammar is pretty bad, but he's not a writer. I don't expect him to have excellent grammar, so I'm okay with it. I do find it both petty and hilarious that he posts it on DOAW and TKP, but only as a status on here. The article is very much out of place on DOAW and no one goes to TKP.

Anyway, that article is full of incorrect statements and false facts. I'll break everything down if necessary, but it's like he didn't even play the same game everyone else at E3 did. I also like how he continues to claim he had limited time with the game even though he had 24/7 access to it for a vast majority of E3.

If we get Manny's version of DOA5, I guarantee I won't play. It's essentially DOA4.2 that he wants. Not surprising at all though after talking to him at E3...

I understand. It was more of an aside.

I don't understand how he can say the attacker is at "advantage" when the opponent is stunned, or that he wants more attacks that stun. His comment about repetition is hilarious to me given how he (and every top player in any game) plays.

I would play it, because DoA is "fun." But few of my friends would. They'll all be playing TTT2.

 

[Allan Paris]

I don't understand how he can say the attacker is at "advantage" when the opponent is stunned, or that he wants more attacks that stun.

I believe this is personal with his character in particular. Though Busa is not a bad character in any way. He has damn near went into another fighting style, grappling. Which means his striking has taken a hit, and now he has to work a little harder to work what Manny is use to working with. Pretty much the game has footsies now and it doesn't work in Busa's favor. It's also why I think or have a feeling he will be maining Akria as well in DOA5, to play the match up game.

I could be wrong. These are just my thoughts on why he wants this in particular and a few other things. This makes the most logical sense to me.

 

[Awesmic]

I don't know who this "you guys" is, since I don't know about the apparent history concerning Master and am expressing my own opinions.

And if he wants to talk about his opinion on these things that would have an impact on competitive play, what better place to do it than where the majority of the DoA community posts?

OK, let me follow up on my post from earlier.

Emperor Cow mentioned the exact same thing about critical bursts a while back, and what happened? The result of that discussion was just as one-sided: Most of you liked the concept, but EC did not. Some of you even got fed up with EC continuing to insist it was a bad idea rather than give it a chance.

Could it be that your opinions have changed?

 

[Skilletor]

OK, let me follow up on my post from earlier.

Emperor Cow mentioned the exact same thing about critical bursts a while back, and what happened? The result of that discussion was just as one-sided: Most of you liked the concept, but EC did not. Some of you even got fed up with EC continuing to insist it was a bad idea rather than give it a chance.

Could it be that your opinions have changed?

Please quit referring to me as if I'm some hive-mind part of the DoA community. I don't know about that conversation and don't recall commenting. I am an individual and post as such. If you have an issue with what I say, please comment upon the content of my posts and not some generic generalization of the "Community" at large.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Emperor Cow mentioned the exact same thing about critical bursts a while back, and what happened? The result of that discussion was just as one-sided: Most of you liked the concept, but EC did not. Some of you even got fed up with EC continuing to insist it was a bad idea rather than give it a chance.

So you're suggesting that if one has a differing opinion from another, that anyone who sides with one over the other is "snap"ping on the other?

 

[grap3fruitman]

Yes, but theres a big difference between a short launch and a quick juggle and ... a POWERBLOW, which most of the time would lead to a dangerzone, which most of the time would guarantee a follow up juggle... Its too much. And too vulnerable to repetitiveness might I add..

They should just randomize everyone's move set at the start of each round if you don't want repitition.

 

[Awesmic]

Please quit referring to me as if I'm some hive-mind part of the DoA community. I don't know about that conversation and don't recall commenting. I am an individual and post as such. If you have an issue with what I say, please comment upon the content of my posts and not some generic generalization of the "Community" at large.

OK. But going by the post you made regarding Master's opinion on the Critical Burst mechanic, you're just as much against the idea of removing it as the competitive majority. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because no one outside of a very few has got enough hands-on experience to really test it out.

@Sorwah: Allright, I'll rephrase.

A lot of you would still insist Critical Bursts are not a bad idea, and the flow of the discussion would likely end up the same way it did when EC discussed it: Speculation that goes nowhere until it's actually tried out by more people. Better?

 

[Skilletor]

OK. But going by the post you made regarding Master's opinion on the Critical Burst mechanic, you're just as much against the idea of removing it as the competitive majority. Not that there's anything wrong with that, because no one outside of a very few has got enough hands-on experience to really test it out.

@Sorwah: Allright, I'll rephrase.

A lot of you would still insist Critical Bursts are not a bad idea, and the flow of the discussion would likely end up the same way it did when EC discussed it: Speculation that goes nowhere until it's actually tried out by more people. Better?

Point out in my post where I mention anything about critical bursts. I pointed out the hypocrisy of saying they are repetitious when Master's gameplay, AND EVERY OTHER TOP PLAYER IN EVERY FIGHTING GAME, relies on the same set of moves. Saying that critical bursts are repetitive coming from this viewpoint is funny to me.

My opinion on critical bursts is that they're a great idea, but the way they're implemented right now still requires many characters to play the guessing game that is DoA4's stun system. I wouldn't care if CBs removed so long as there are more stuns from which you cannot hold to replace the system.

So please stop lumping people in as some vague "you" and "them," and start addressing the people to which you are responding by the things they are actually saying.

 

[Awesmic]

So please stop lumping people in as some vague "you" and "them," and start addressing the people to which you are responding by the things they are actually saying.

I see. So that was your real problem with what I was posting.

In that case, I'll try.