DOA5U Bass General Discussion: Champion Edition

Sol Badguy

New Member
Glad to see this thread is still alive :) So its been almost a month of me sticking with bass. I do enjoy using the "underdog" but its hard playing him when no one respects the character. I swear online people just press buttons since they know they'll get away it. Anyways, has anyone been able to use 44P in stun well because I notice sometimes a 236P followup will whiff or connect?
 

UncleKitchener

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Interesting things I've found today:

Holding :3_: while mashing throw on block to punish a low-throw punishable move would automatically give you :3::3::h::+::P:. My theory is that every time you input throw while holding down :3:, the input system would store both direction and button press, adding an additional 3 to the next input. Works on both sides.

This is useful for when punishing moves like Christie's JAK :K: on block which recovers in squat pos.
 

Matt Ponton

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It should work, I haven't gotten used to it though. Doing :2: would still require you to wait the 5 frames to crouch before 4P+K came out.

Doing :3::3_::4::P+K: is instant frame crouch.
 

Rich Nixon

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Played against a solid Bayman the other day. Tank roll bailed him out of all disadvantaged situations. Anyone have a way to maximize damage when you make a tank roll read? 66p works, but it doesn't guarantee anything and does poor damage. 214+P does good damage but is slow and sometimes gets caught by tankroll. 44ps hitbox is inconsistent and may as well be a high with the amount of times it gets crushed.
 

UncleKitchener

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Why not use 6P and PK instead when you do get a read? Both are safe and good at stopping JAK and tank rolls. 1P is also great too, even though I tend to use 2Ps sometimes to catch an opponent sleeping.

The thing here is that you'd want to use mids which are either true mids like 66p/214p or mids that may be crushed by some characters like Genfu or Leifang like 6P and 3K (though in this case, against Bayman or Christie's JAK you should be totally fine). Mids like 44p aren't true mids and then may still get crushed easily. Remember back in pre-1.05 days where it used to whiff on crouching Chr and Hel? Yeah.
 

UncleKitchener

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Sorry for the double post, but I feel like I can actually recommend the 4P series because people still don't realize that a full CH 4PPP+K leads into full-threshold territory and the GB from 4PPP is actually really good at creating a 50/50 situation, which people don't like to be in usually and the last hit also has a good hitbox that stuffs JAK and roll attempts. 4P suffers from the issue of not being a true mid (still better than 44P in terms of hurtbox (not extending)) and having shite range. However, it tries to make up for it by having follow-ups and a decent mix-up for what it is. Hell, you can even use it as a tick throw setup because not enough people are scared of the mid followup and once they stop pressing buttons, you have good enough recovery to just dash in and kill them. Also, this string is very very delayable, which is pretty darn good. It's also not horrendous in terms of speed either (17i, just two frames slower than 6P).

Still doesn't change the fact that it's very mediocre, but I'm trying to give all the credit I can give to this string, since I do use it occasionally and oftens works to my advantage.
 

Commmanda Panda

Active Member
I just noticed it has been nearly 2 months of practicing with Bass for me. He seems to have taken up Lisa's slot as my secondary character moving her down to 3rd string lol.
The thing I noticed while using him, even though I knew this in the back of my head, is that even in a bad MU it comes down to the other players' familiarity of your character some times. It so fun to see people struggle against Bass because they don't know what to do. Still got more practicing to do also
Anyways, I just felt like sharing my experience

Also, I was thinking about helping out in the throw punish thread for Kokoro. I'm in the process of updating her frame data in the wiki so I'll be in the lab working on that. After I'm done I can see what I can do. @UncleKitchener how do you usually go about testing this out?
 

UncleKitchener

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I just noticed it has been nearly 2 months of practicing with Bass for me. He seems to have taken up Lisa's slot as my secondary character moving her down to 3rd string lol.
The thing I noticed while using him, even though I knew this in the back of my head, is that even in a bad MU it comes down to the other players' familiarity of your character some times. It so fun to see people struggle against Bass because they don't know what to do. Still got more practicing to do also
Anyways, I just felt like sharing my experience

Y'see, I don't think that approach to MUs is good for a Bass player in the long run. He is already an incredibly simple character that anyone with more than 20-30 matches against a good player should know what to expect when going against this guy. I find it more helpful to play against people who are familiar with my character so that I'd have to try new things that would make it hard for my opponent to react to and/or defend against.

I've been playing this character for about a year and a half and I've found that if you keep things simple, you'd actually get further in the long run.

I'm no guru, but I just find the above to be more suitable for me and has paid off for me too.

Also, I was thinking about helping out in the throw punish thread for Kokoro. I'm in the process of updating her frame data in the wiki so I'll be in the lab working on that. After I'm done I can see what I can do. @UncleKitchener how do you usually go about testing this out?

I test every single move individually from different ranges and different throws. Throws have variable range and speed, so you need to keep that in mind. I also test for OHs and Side steps for mid-string or sometimes purely as alternative punishment not necessarily related to throws. Don't bother with those, just test for throw punishment. If you take a look at one example in that thread, you'd realize how I've categorized them.

7f > 9f > 12f > 5f > lows and low OHs > OHs(16f and up) > anything else > trivia and notes

Something like that. Nothing too rigid. I'd take anything really. Appreciate it in advance.
 

Commmanda Panda

Active Member
Y'see, I don't think that approach to MUs is good for a Bass player in the long run. He is already an incredibly simple character that anyone with more than 20-30 matches against a good player should know what to expect when going against this guy. I find it more helpful to play against people who are familiar with my character so that I'd have to try new things that would make it hard for my opponent to react to and/or defend against.

I've been playing this character for about a year and a half and I've found that if you keep things simple, you'd actually get further in the long run.

I'm no guru, but I just find the above to be more suitable for me and has paid off for me too.
Yes, you are absolutely right. I have already noticed that since I am still in the process of getting better with Bass I tend to rely on many of the same tools when facing someone. I need to make sure I'm not too predictable. I'll keep your advice in mind for sure.

I test every single move individually from different ranges and different throws. Throws have variable range and speed, so you need to keep that in mind. I also test for OHs and Side steps for mid-string or sometimes purely as alternative punishment not necessarily related to throws. Don't bother with those, just test for throw punishment. If you take a look at one example in that thread, you'd realize how I've categorized them.
alright i'll see what I can do.
 

Sol Badguy

New Member
Like Panda, I've been using Bass for a solid 2 months now. I've been really tryna work on mastering the basics like throw punishes. Why go for a combo when you can cut their life down easily with CH 4T? I know I still need work, but you know you're doing something right when people refuse to play your character :)
 

peachyO

Member
Like Panda, I've been using Bass for a solid 2 months now. I've been really tryna work on mastering the basics like throw punishes. Why go for a combo when you can cut their life down easily with CH 4T? I know I still need work, but you know you're doing something right when people refuse to play your character :)
yay, another convert! simple as he is, he requires in-depth knowledge and every trick at his disposal in order to win. throw punishing is a critical part of his winning strategy. his t.f.b.b. is so destructive! also remember to make good use of his 6T, as it gives +10, and his 4T, which does great damage and is fast enough to be used in many punishment situations.
 

Matt Ponton

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So I've been working this into my game lately and have had pretty good results.

I personally have stopped using 1P as a crush/pressure tool. This is primarily because it's his most oftenly seen move and if the opponent hold attempts before they are allowed to hold then they'll hold 1PP as a hi-counter.

1P is a slow low as well. I've been preferring 2P as it ducks just as good as 1P and has a string followup to give a deep stun.

So I've been testing the following: 2P to press the opponent off me, yes it's -5 on NH but you're shooting for this to be a High Crushing counter hit under pressure. Now it doesn't seem like a good stun but the good thing about it is it pushes the opponent away. This is where the frame trap comes in. Nothing like doing 2P4P+K. WR 4P+K is a mid-long range attack that high crushes at pratically all of its startup frames, and 2P puts Bass in crouch. The 2P counter hit pushes them far enough away that I find them being frame trapped because they want to push buttons and they eat a WR 4P+K.

Keep in mind that WR 4P+K gives a good lift stun and sets you up for his BT game. Most commonly the opponent will do a high, mid, or guard followup after being hit by 2P on counter-hit. The only thing that stuffs this strategy is a sidestep or low attack. Fortunately, those aren't things people are thinking of after coming out of stun at mid-range distance against "slow" Bass. Remember, if they guard he's still in his BT game and is still +0 so only 9 framers will be able to interrupt the throw but they must do it on the first frame.

One other thing I've noticed is that if you launch with 33P and do his P followup (33PP) then the opponent is put really close to Bass. It doesn't guarantee a pickup, but due to the close proximity it allows for :426::[[H+P]]: to reach them upon teching away. They can't backdash in time.
 

Rich Nixon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
So I've been working this into my game lately and have had pretty good results.

I personally have stopped using 1P as a crush/pressure tool. This is primarily because it's his most oftenly seen move and if the opponent hold attempts before they are allowed to hold then they'll hold 1PP as a hi-counter.

1P is a slow low as well. I've been preferring 2P as it ducks just as good as 1P and has a string followup to give a deep stun.

So I've been testing the following: 2P to press the opponent off me, yes it's -5 on NH but you're shooting for this to be a High Crushing counter hit under pressure. Now it doesn't seem like a good stun but the good thing about it is it pushes the opponent away. This is where the frame trap comes in. Nothing like doing 2P4P+K. WR 4P+K is a mid-long range attack that high crushes at pratically all of its startup frames, and 2P puts Bass in crouch. The 2P counter hit pushes them far enough away that I find them being frame trapped because they want to push buttons and they eat a WR 4P+K.

Keep in mind that WR 4P+K gives a good lift stun and sets you up for his BT game. Most commonly the opponent will do a high, mid, or guard followup after being hit by 2P on counter-hit. The only thing that stuffs this strategy is a sidestep or low attack. Fortunately, those aren't things people are thinking of after coming out of stun at mid-range distance against "slow" Bass. Remember, if they guard he's still in his BT game and is still +0 so only 9 framers will be able to interrupt the throw but they must do it on the first frame.

One other thing I've noticed is that if you launch with 33P and do his P followup (33PP) then the opponent is put really close to Bass. It doesn't guarantee a pickup, but due to the close proximity it allows for :426::[[H+P]]: to reach them upon teching away. They can't backdash in time.

1P is an ok move but I try not to over use it. I think its essential in certain match ups against those with special sidesteps (Bayman, Christie, Hayate to name a few) because of its low tracking properties. On paper it is pretty mediocre. Its only +5 on fastest SE, 22i startup, follow ups are slow and interruptable. But if used correctly with 2P I'd say it is a staple in Mr. Too Damn Strong's offense.

I've been trying to find use for 2K. After 6T its +1 on NH because of the distance. When I get home I'm going to test if Bass can recover fast enough to block a sidestep attack if the opponent side step attacks after 6T.
 

Matt Ponton

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Right, it's practically the only reason I use 1P is for anti-tracking.

Does 2K on CH guarantee him 3K? or does it on slip-stun?
 

Rich Nixon

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Right, it's practically the only reason I use 1P is for anti-tracking.

Does 2K on CH guarantee him 3K? or does it on slip-stun?
Unfortunately it doesn't if they SE @ fastest because hes only at +11.That would be sooo dirty. If they don't SE at fastest I believe it is guaranteed. I'm not sure how slip stun mechanics work. I hear Bass is supposed to have some guaranteed setups but I dunno what they are.
 

Matt Ponton

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Slip stun is when you hit Counter hit on water/ice.

Just go any level with either of those, set attack to counter hit, and have them hold mid kick fastest in stun.

Generally no one staggers fastest on 1st hit.
 

UncleKitchener

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Been looking for juggle on different juggles on heavies in the past couple weeks and I've noticed that delayed :3::3::P::P: does infact leads to the psudo-forcetech setups same as :6::K::P: in juggles and thanks to the good recovery, you get more frame advantage than doing :6::K::P: from the same height. Obviously, you're sacrificing way more damage, but when you're against heavy characters, it's a much more preferable option since you may have a chance of whiffing :6::K::P: on those weight classes or maybe Christie if you always want to have access to your 15i pokes after they tech.

Best way to achieve this is to delay this as much as possible, but due to the fact that you can't delay it that much against light or medium characters in most cases, it mostly becomes the prefered option against heavies.
 
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