Community Learning from the Japanese Players

We've heard a lot of things about Japanese players in the community without really playing them, and the stuff said has been somewhat of a mixed bag. Recently a player from the fighting game community took a trip to Japan to see for himself, and he came back with constructive things to say.

The player learned that Japanese players are patient, and enjoy helping one another with their game. It becomes a more social activity instead of a creepy solo performance of practicing tech and withholding it for yourself in your bedroom.

"When I spent time [in Japan], they told me about how they train. It's very different from rest of world. I think that's why they have an advantage. They train (hundreds of fights), take a break/eat, then go at it again. And help each other."

A lot of people comment on the size of tournaments in the states for our game, and some people say it's because Dead or Alive is not the most popular fighting game, but the real case behind this could be a lack of effort from the community itself. With a million digital F2P, and a million physical copies out there, that doesn't really explain a thirty man tournament at a major.

Emperor Cow, Sweet Revenge and Hajin are some good examples of how the community should be doing things:

1. International Play - We're starting to see more of this, and this is great for community growth.
2. Guides, Tech Sharing - It doesn't always hurt to share what you know if you want the community to grow. A more knowledgeable community can equal a happier, and larger community.

I ask the community this: What do you want for the DOA community? How have you helped? How much does community actually even mean to you?

Perhaps we can learn a great deal from the players overseas, and while I think we as a community are doing better than we ever have; I believe now is the time to step it up a notch and go into beast mode.
 
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There have been moments online I've specifically told people how to stop me solely from pity and I doubt they would learn it otherwise. because doing the same thing to them a hundred times obviously isn't teaching then anything.
 
theres nothing wrong with tech sharing ..
When I made the Gen Fu vid I was completely oblivious with regards to the character ... I knew he was strong .. but tackling where and why would have taken so much time if I had done it on my own ..

So I approached Yamima in Japan (top Gen Fu player) and I approached Sweet Revenge form owr very own FSD...

the trick is not just to ask .. "HEY YO HELP ME LEARN THIS CHARACTER!" ... that kind of question will take you nowhere .. ofcourse before approaching them both, I had to do my own digging and research and see if I have all the right info on my own. then I double back after asking them to see if theres anything I missed ...

questions to ask are more down the lines of ...
- Whats the max damage after CB, PL ... his 236H+P
- Does the character have any 2-in-1s ?
- whats the most ideal follow up after certain launchers, holds etc.
- what are his best crushes ?
- whats the optimum damage after this guaranteed follow-up (be it a faint, a turn around, a sit down, a slip, and exploding stage ... etc)
- any situation specific stuns .. ?


whats interesting is that the conversation with Yamima was very different from SR. Yamima favored Max damage where as SR favored vortex and mixup. this generated a ton of interesting discussions leading to frametraps, mixups, guaranteeing stuff and whiff punishing .. etc..

despite Gen Fu being the most boring character in the game in my opinion .. I have to say making his video was quite the learning experience for me to the point that I actually started to like the old guy..


sharing knowledge is a great thing and making these vids is my way of giving back to you guys ...
but It could not have been done without the help of @SweetRevenge117 and Yamima from Japan :)

and I think we should help each other more to level up as a community ..

you see the tech .. you find ways around that tech .. and then you develp new tech to counter that particular tech ... and thats when you really see the game evolving ...

another thing to consider is trying to implement the knowledge u pick with one character and apply it with another ... creating a whole new layer of gameplay ....
this is also very effective in helping you evolve on a personal level .. especially when you feel that you've reached a road block with your main ... pick someone else n see what you can discover with them .. then double back to your main after a few weeks/months .. and you'll realize that you're playing them in a totally different light.. :)
 
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Bullshit @Nightpup Every Brad player has been complain since day 1 (except chosen1, but he sucks and doesn't post here anyway). No adjustments made.
 
It's really sad that this is one of the reasons why we can't get on Korea or Japan's level is because of the shit we are doing right now (trashing beginners instead of helping them out, egos, complaining, etc.). I remember one of the guys said this in the comments below:

"In North America, a lot of people see helping others as a sign of weakness."

And another one said this:

"America = Balrog
Japan = Dudley
Balrog is in it for the fight money
Dudley is in it for love of the sport"

Point is that the Japanese and Korean FGC are trying to have fun and improve their game. US FGC, on the other hand, are egotists.

So my question to the US FGC is: Do you love your game? Do you love your community? Are you wiling to help others out? Or are you only in it for the money?
 
Well if this is related to the PR Balrog statement he is absolutely right and it has more to do with Japanese society teachings rather then just fgc community based attitudes.

U guys will lose Marvel like this! All Nemo needs is 20-25 strong players to disturb the brackets and Evo can be taken.
 
I don't think so it's boringness is what you expect and they gave you a mode where you could put whatever you want on the character to make them look awesome. I mean DOA's characters aren't nothing to ride home about they are just characters with a huge set of clothes. I find a lot of the DOA characters boring to be honest. (I'm looking at you Rig and Ein.)
 
theres nothing wrong with tech sharing ..
When I made the Gen Fu vid I was completely oblivious with regards to the character ... I knew he was strong .. but tackling where and why would have taken so much time if I had done it on my own ..

So I approached Yamima in Japan (top Gen Fu player) and I approached Sweet Revenge form owr very own FSD...

the trick is not just to ask .. "HEY YO HELP ME LEARN THIS CHARACTER!" ... that kind of question will take you nowhere .. ofcourse before approaching them both, I had to do my own digging and research and see if I have all the right info on my own. then I double back after asking them to see if theres anything I missed ...

questions to ask are more down the lines of ...
- Whats the max damage after CB, PL ... his 236H+P
- Does the character have any 2-in-1s ?
- whats the most ideal follow up after certain launchers, holds etc.
- what are his best crushes ?
- whats the optimum damage after this guaranteed follow-up (be it a faint, a turn around, a sit down, a slip, and exploding stage ... etc)
- any situation specific stuns .. ?


whats interesting is that the conversation with Yamima was very different from SR. Yamima favored Max damage where as SR favored vortex and mixup. this generated a ton of interesting discussions leading to frametraps, mixups, guaranteeing stuff and whiff punishing .. etc..

despite Gen Fu being the most boring character in the game in my opinion .. I have to say making his video was quite the learning experience for me to the point that I actually started to like the old guy..


sharing knowledge is a great thing and making these vids is my way of giving back to you guys ...
but It could not have been done without the help of @SweetRevenge117 and Yamima from Japan :)

and I think we should help each other more to level up as a community ..

you see the tech .. you find ways around that tech .. and then you develp new tech to counter that particular tech ... and thats when you really see the game evolving ...

another thing to consider is trying to implement the knowledge u pick with one character and apply it with another ... creating a whole new layer of gameplay ....
this is also very effective in helping you evolve on a personal level .. especially when you feel that you've reached a road block with your main ... pick someone else n see what you can discover with them .. then double back to your main after a few weeks/months .. and you'll realize that you're playing them in a totally different light.. :)

The "Hey, yo, help me learn this character" is probably the most common question around and probably needs the most addressing, really. Most of the information on a character is out there (not all), but it's also incredibly disorganized and on different levels. A single character shouldn't be a research project. Me, personally, I'll probably work on this as i get better myself. Though, me saying this is beating on a dead horse. I won't be happy until someone can start playing DoA 1 week, and the next week be casual level competent with at least half the roster. I doubt i could ever get Team Ninja's help, but they would be able to help more than anyone.
 
It's really sad that this is one of the reasons why we can't get on Korea or Japan's level is because of the shit we are doing right now (trashing beginners instead of helping them out, egos, complaining, etc.). I remember one of the guys said this in the comments below:

"In North America, a lot of people see helping others as a sign of weakness."

And another one said this:

"America = Balrog
Japan = Dudley
Balrog is in it for the fight money
Dudley is in it for love of the sport"

Point is that the Japanese and Korean FGC are trying to have fun and improve their game. US FGC, on the other hand, are egotists.

So my question to the US FGC is: Do you love your game? Do you love your community? Are you wiling to help others out? Or are you only in it for the money?

I think this is a massive generalization and that there is ALOT more to be said about the reality than this exactly. Americans have more people to saturate the newbie help line, so people get annoyed easily. The better players just don't have enough time to teach EVERYONE.
 
I think this is a massive generalization and that there is ALOT more to be said about the reality than this exactly. Americans have more people to saturate the newbie help line, so people get annoyed easily. The better players just don't have enough time to teach EVERYONE.
We're not going to literally teach everyone. It's impossible for many obvious reasons.
But we American players should help one another along with those
new players who approach veterans with inquiries on how to play properly. That's one step we can take to bettering our community.
 
We're not going to literally teach everyone. It's impossible for many obvious reasons.
But we American players should help one another along with those
new players who approach veterans with inquiries on how to play properly. That's one step we can take to bettering our community.

The problem is, then how do people learn? A good bit of what i know comes from people giving me direct advice on how to improve my game. Are only the people who figure out the right questions to ask the right people to learn how to play? That's already the model we have right now.

We gotta think bigger. I'm hoping certain members here right now will help me get to the point i can control the project to realize a method for teaching everyone how to get at least mediocre with any character without the whole massive research project.

The problem is, you have people on the bottom saying that the boneheads on the top are selfish and not teaching them why they suck (which isn't true). The people on the top are saying that the boneheads on the bottom aren't reading and watching what's available (i make the higher level players sound bad here, but really this is all with the best intentions in mind).

Here's the rub: the information may be out there, but it may be vague, or it may be written in a way that's not clear to new people. Worse yet, the information is horribly disorganized. A new person doesn't know where to begin, what to read, etc. Moreover, if you wish for the game to grow, you need to try to make this as easily and painless as possible, since people will be trying out this series and community to see if they even like Dead or Alive instead of other fighting games or even if they like fighting games in general. This shouldn't fall on the top, either. We really need to, as a community at large, figure out how to most efficiently teach the game as well as figure out why people aren't getting the information that they need, instead of talking about how someone doesn't want to help someone or that people are beyond help. We're noticing that these are legitimate problems, but we're totally missing an even bigger problem which may even exist in international communities. I think we should look at other games and even games of different genres and figure out why they're doing so much better than us as well as what we can do about it..... Or we could continue pointing fingers at each other saying "it's his fault" and see how that's going to make everyone suddenly more cooperative.
 
Bullshit @Nightpup Every Brad player has been complain since day 1 (except chosen1, but he sucks and doesn't post here anyway). No adjustments made.
That kind of downplaying attitude toward those who try and go out of their way to compete rather than complain does more harm than good.

Personally, I believe you're a good person underneath, but comments like this make you sound like the worst of stream monsters... and they disgust me more than anything.
 
Wu
The problem is, then how do people learn? A good bit of what i know comes from people giving me direct advice on how to improve my game. Are only the people who figure out the right questions to ask the right people to learn how to play? That's already the model we have right now.

We gotta think bigger. I'm hoping certain members here right now will help me get to the point i can control the project to realize a method for teaching everyone how to get at least mediocre with any character without the whole massive research project.

The problem is, you have people on the bottom saying that the boneheads on the top are selfish and not teaching them why they suck (which isn't true). The people on the top are saying that the boneheads on the bottom aren't reading and watching what's available (i make the higher level players sound bad here, but really this is all with the best intentions in mind).

Here's the rub: the information may be out there, but it may be vague, or it may be written in a way that's not clear to new people. Worse yet, the information is horribly disorganized. A new person doesn't know where to begin, what to read, etc. Moreover, if you wish for the game to grow, you need to try to make this as easily and painless as possible, since people will be trying out this series and community to see if they even like Dead or Alive instead of other fighting games or even if they like fighting games in general. This shouldn't fall on the top, either. We really need to, as a community at large, figure out how to most efficiently teach the game as well as figure out why people aren't getting the information that they need, instead of talking about how someone doesn't want to help someone or that people are beyond help. We're noticing that these are legitimate problems, but we're totally missing an even bigger problem which may even exist in international communities. I think we should look at other games and even games of different genres and figure out why they're doing so much better than us as well as what we can do about it..... Or we could continue pointing fingers at each other saying "it's his fault" and see how that's going to make everyone suddenly more cooperative.
Honestly, people need that nudge in the right direction.
Giving people some knowledge and some feedback on what they're doing incorrectly works wonders. Having guys like Sly Bass & Galen The Wise personally tell me what I was doing with Akira was wrong helped me break bad habits.
This is just an example of the kind of help & interaction that the more green players could use. I damn sure knew I needed that.
 
"Oh you want to see my tech?? Sorry honey maybe when you're watching on stream at my next offline tournament"

:lisa:
 
I've been offering to teach players since DOA2U. I've also made a group who is dedicated in helping the community, rather it's with guides, videos, teaching online/offline...etc I've made many appearances in offline events, and are always trying to reach out to others that want to do the same.

There is one thing I have to say. Everyone is talking about those who are "asking" for help. What about those that are offering it? There are plenty of people. If someone is offering help, I advise you guys to take advantage of it. I am willing to help anyone who is discipline enough, and open to learn. I can teach a various of characters, and can also try helping people understand the game in general.
 
Wu

Honestly, people need that nudge in the right direction.
Giving people some knowledge and some feedback on what they're doing incorrectly works wonders. Having guys like Sly Bass & Galen The Wise personally tell me what I was doing with Akira was wrong helped me break bad habits.
This is just an example of the kind of help & interaction that the more green players could use. I damn sure knew I needed that.

Indeed it does, but, as you said, it's impractical. How do we choose who to and who not to teach? In order to make this more practical, we need to try to get that information delivered better. If we can prevent bad habits before they start, it'll be easier to get rid of them. When i teach English to Japanese people (and conversely, Japanese to English speakers), i emphasize pronunciation, and for good reason: it's what people screw up the most, so it needs to be learned first.

I've been offering to teach players since DOA2U. I've also made a group who is dedicated in helping the community, rather it's with guides, videos, teaching online/offline...etc I've made many appearances in offline events, and are always trying to reach out to others that want to do the same.

There is one thing I have to say. Everyone is talking about those who are "asking" for help. What about those that are offering it? There are plenty of people. If someone is offering help, I advise you guys to take advantage of it. I am willing to help anyone who is discipline enough, and open to learn. I can teach a various of characters, and can also try helping people understand the game in general.


Perhaps we should keep in touch, then.
 
2. Guides, Tech Sharing - It doesn't always hurt to share what you know if you want the community to grow. A more knowledgeable community can equal a happier, and larger community.
theres nothing wrong with tech sharing ..
When I made the Gen Fu vid I was completely oblivious with regards to the character ... I knew he was strong .. but tackling where and why would have taken so much time if I had done it on my own ..

So I approached Yamima in Japan (top Gen Fu player) and I approached Sweet Revenge form owr very own FSD...

the trick is not just to ask .. "HEY YO HELP ME LEARN THIS CHARACTER!" ... that kind of question will take you nowhere .. ofcourse before approaching them both, I had to do my own digging and research and see if I have all the right info on my own. then I double back after asking them to see if theres anything I missed ...

questions to ask are more down the lines of ...
- Whats the max damage after CB, PL ... his 236H+P
- Does the character have any 2-in-1s ?
- whats the most ideal follow up after certain launchers, holds etc.
- what are his best crushes ?
- whats the optimum damage after this guaranteed follow-up (be it a faint, a turn around, a sit down, a slip, and exploding stage ... etc)
- any situation specific stuns .. ?


whats interesting is that the conversation with Yamima was very different from SR. Yamima favored Max damage where as SR favored vortex and mixup. this generated a ton of interesting discussions leading to frametraps, mixups, guaranteeing stuff and whiff punishing .. etc..

despite Gen Fu being the most boring character in the game in my opinion .. I have to say making his video was quite the learning experience for me to the point that I actually started to like the old guy..


sharing knowledge is a great thing and making these vids is my way of giving back to you guys ...
but It could not have been done without the help of @SweetRevenge117 and Yamima from Japan :)

and I think we should help each other more to level up as a community ..

you see the tech .. you find ways around that tech .. and then you develp new tech to counter that particular tech ... and thats when you really see the game evolving ...

another thing to consider is trying to implement the knowledge u pick with one character and apply it with another ... creating a whole new layer of gameplay ....
this is also very effective in helping you evolve on a personal level .. especially when you feel that you've reached a road block with your main ... pick someone else n see what you can discover with them .. then double back to your main after a few weeks/months .. and you'll realize that you're playing them in a totally different light.. :)
well...I do believe the most boring character is hayate,old gen has so many "choose" tricks
 
Funny thing is I read an article that paralleled this one about PR Rog over in the SF scene going to Japan and saying the exact same thing about their scene and playerbase vs the American one. Guess it doesn't even matter what the game itself is, the Japanese are just genuinely more helpful and open to share.
 
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