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Detailed help for wakeups and hold reversals?

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ArchedEnemy

New Member
I'm looking for a little help in general game mechanics, mostly with situational defense options.

First, I can't seem to find consistent behavior with escaping moves like Mila's takedown. Escaping from a multi-tiered hold is the same type of issue for me. Sometimes I can mash out, but I can't consistently perform an escape so that I'm confident that I'm using the correct inputs. The tutorial mode doesn't even touch on this stuff. Throw escapes are just pushing the throw input correctly, but that definitely isn't the right input for those other moves.

Second, it seems that certain characters have some magical ability to ignore the wake up invulnerability, and all of those characters seem to be the 'bonus' or guest characters like Gen Fu, Rachel and Akira. I understand the concept of force techs, I'm simply talking about a situation when I've done nothing but press back to rise away from my opponent while I sit on the Hold button. I'll be half way up and they just run in and strike with a mid attack. Gen Fu has grabbed me with a crouch throw. Obviously I'm doing something wrong, the tutorial claims this should be impossible.

Simplified, what are the proper inputs to escape combo Holds, or moves like the takedown? What are the exact mechanics for wakeups?
I can't seem to find explanations for these around here, most of what I see is aimed at the absolute starters or people who are more experienced with DoA. This is my first effort to play DoA with any seriousness, but certainly not my first fight game. Any topics or sites I can find introduction for people that are intermediate in other games? My apologies if I'm just being unobservant and they're right in front of my face.
 
tokiopewpew

tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
ArchedEnemy said:
I'm looking for a little help in general game mechanics, mostly with situational defense options.

First, I can't seem to find consistent behavior with escaping moves like Mila's takedown. Escaping from a multi-tiered hold is the same type of issue for me. Sometimes I can mash out, but I can't consistently perform an escape so that I'm confident that I'm using the correct inputs. The tutorial mode doesn't even touch on this stuff. Throw escapes are just pushing the throw input correctly, but that definitely isn't the right input for those other moves.
Click to expand...

In general, you can perform a throw escape (even from combo throws) by simply pressing the throw button to the right time. Note, that just some combo throw follow-ups and non-directional throws can be escaped in DOA5. When your opponent is able to perform a combo throw or similar, you will see a writing on the screen (usually in blue or green) that appears right in the moment were you are supposed to try an escape. I'm not sure about this by myself, but it might be that some throws can't be escaped if your opponent does the input with exact timing.

Trying to escape from throws can become more difficult when you are playing online, because it requires strict timing and you have to consider the network delay between both players. Therefore, this could also be a reason that you were not able to escape every time.


ArchedEnemy said:
Second, it seems that certain characters have some magical ability to ignore the wake up invulnerability, and all of those characters seem to be the 'bonus' or guest characters like Gen Fu, Rachel and Akira. I understand the concept of force techs, I'm simply talking about a situation when I've done nothing but press back to rise away from my opponent while I sit on the Hold button. I'll be half way up and they just run in and strike with a mid attack. Gen Fu has grabbed me with a crouch throw. Obviously I'm doing something wrong, the tutorial claims this should be impossible
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% sure what you mean with that. Of course, if your opponent has noticed or guessed that you are not going for a wakeup-kick after you got grounded (can be also noticed by a writing that appears on the screen), he can go for an attack to hit you right after you've done your tech-roll or you got up. It just requires the right timing to get the moment were your wakeup invulnerability is going to end. Again, things can be different online, you sometimes may get hit or loose advantage although this should not happen. Some fighters have unblockable attacks that be can used to hit you right after tech-rolling, even if you sit on the Hold button (e.g. Jann Lees dragon kick).

When you're back up and just holding the guard button, you opponent can do a throw of course. This is nothing only Gen Fu is capable of. A low throw would have been only possible if he had blocked your low wakeup-kick or you went straight into crouching-status right after getting up. And in general, Gen Fu does not have to deal with wakeup-kicks because ... it's Gen Fu :D
You might ask some of the Gen Fu experts here in his forum for more detailed information about this.

ArchedEnemy said:
Simplified, what are the proper inputs to escape combo Holds, or moves like the takedown? What are the exact mechanics for wakeups?
I can't seem to find explanations for these around here, most of what I see is aimed at the absolute starters or people who are more experienced with DoA. This is my first effort to play DoA with any seriousness, but certainly not my first fight game. Any topics or sites I can find introduction for people that are intermediate in other games? My apologies if I'm just being unobservant and they're right in front of my face.
Click to expand...

There are no special mechanics for wake-ups that are not covered by the tutorial. You can either tech-roll right after you got grounded to avoid more damage while laying on the ground or wait there, attempting to do a wakeup-kick or get up as soon as there is more space between you and our opponent. You just have to be sure not to press a button until you've landed on the ground if you want to go for the latter, otherwise, you will be vulnerable as soon as you got up again.

You might take a look in the thread below, it may give you some additional information about wakeup opportunities for various fighters as well as some advices how to avoid them.

http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/wake-up-kicks-do-you-hold-them-or-crush-them.3816/

I hope that helps you a bit :).
 
Last edited:
A

ArchedEnemy

New Member
ToKyo PewPew said:
In general, you can perform a throw escape (even from combo throws) by simply pressing the throw button to the right time. Note, that just some combo throw follow-ups and non-directional throws can be escaped in DOA5. When your opponent is able to perform a combo throw or similar, you will see a writing on the screen (usually in blue or green) that appears right in the moment were you are supposed to try an escape. I'm not sure about this by myself, but it might be that some throws can't be escaped if your opponent does the input with exact timing.

Trying to escape from throws can become more difficult when you are playing online, because it requires strict timing and you have to consider the network delay between both players. Therefore, this could also be a reason that you were not able to escape every time.




I'm not 100% sure what you mean with that. Of course, if your opponent has noticed or guessed that you are not going for a wakeup-kick after you got grounded (can be also noticed by a writing that appears on the screen), he can go for an attack to hit you right after you've done your tech-roll or you got up. It just requires the right timing to get the moment were your wakeup invulnerability is going to end. Again, things can be different online, you sometimes may get hit or loose advantage although this should not happen. Some fighters have unblockable attacks that be can used to hit you right after tech-rolling, even if you sit on the Hold button (e.g. Jann Lees dragon kick).

When you're back up and just holding the guard button, you opponent can do a throw of course. This is nothing only Gen Fu is capable of. A low throw would have been only possible if he had blocked your low wakeup-kick or you went straight into crouching-status right after getting up. And in general, Gen Fu does not have to deal with wakeup-kicks because ... it's Gen Fu :D
You might ask some of the Gen Fu experts here in his forum for more detailed information about this.



There are no special mechanics for wake-ups that are not covered by the tutorial. You can either tech-roll right after you got grounded to avoid more damage while laying on the ground or wait there, attempting to do a wakeup-kick or get up as soon as there is more space between you and our opponent. You just have to be sure not to press a button until you've landed on the ground if you want to go for the latter, otherwise, you will be vulnerable as soon as you got up again.

You might take a look in the thread below, it may give you some additional information about wakeup opportunities for various fighters as well as some advices how to avoid them.

http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/wake-up-kicks-do-you-hold-them-or-crush-them.3816/

I hope that helps you a bit :).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help.

So the escape input doesn't change when the move is a hold instead of a throw? The Izuna Drop for example? The writing you mention changes color, green for holds and blue for throws. The button icons for hold and throw match the colors, so I was suspecting that I need to push the hold button instead of throw when my opponent used a hold to begin with. That's also how you perform the inputs for those moves, combo holds use hold for all moves in the combo, combo throws are all throw. Similar for Mila and her takedown. The input is a punch, and the combo icon in the corner matches the button color.

Using the throw command will escape all of those? Or should if they're escapable?

It could be that I've tech-rolled when my wake ups are stuffed. I'll have to pay more attention to that aspect. It seems fuzzy to me because I know I've seen the wakeup invulnerability at the same height. It could also be I notice it more against certain characters because I end up playing a lot against AI, and those characters seem to have better AI. I'll have to pay attention to that too.

Again, thanks for the help. I'll play around with that stuff more with those points in mind.
 
tokiopewpew

tokiopewpew

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
ArchedEnemy said:
Using the throw command will escape all of those? Or should if they're escapable?
Click to expand...

Well, I have to admit that I never though about this. I'm always using the throw button for escaping, however, I've never tried to do this with the hold button instead. I also can't remember getting caught by any hold combo that is considered to be escapable were I was never able to do so, leading myself into doubts about wrong input.

Since this question is not answered within the tutorial and holds get beaten by throws in general according to the triangle-system, I still would say that the throw button is the right way.

*EDIT*

Alright, I guess Mr. Wah's post should answer all your questions and contain everything you need to know about throwing in DOA5 x)
 
A

ArchedEnemy

New Member
It looks like my questions are answered. I keep expecting this game to work like Virtua Fighter where you can escape any command throw by matching the last joystick direction, and tech rolls aren't punishable. Too bad the tutorials don't mention these differences, could have saved myself a lot of grief and saltiness.
 
Matt Ponton

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
Tech rolls are typically punishable. If you're referring to someone teching from a juggle or ground slam, there are ways to make sure you have frame advantage after they finish teching. Typically like whiffing an attack that causes an option select.
 
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